BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Often times it seems easy to play Devil's Advocate and this is one of them. There is verbiage in the Standards that is often times open to interpretation due to present wording. Marco states how they intended that to read. Others read it verbatim and act on it accordingly. I dunno what the best answer is on how to act.
Since French Lick got mentioned, another "for example" is the colors. MARC has not adopted the Paint & Refinish Guide. Some will argue that this was done many years ago however it has been revised several times and it has never been voted on to adopt the revs. by the MARC JSC. Therefore (at least in my opinion) it is unethical for a judge to use that book during MARC fine-point competition, -even when the Chief Judge has instructed Team Captains not to use it. None the less, this book was used as reference in French Lick and in San Diego.
On the flip side, while I mentioned about referring to Mick's book above, I probably should have re-phrased that because if I recall correctly, the fastener finishes are listed in the Ford Parts Price List books too, ...which is listed as an accepted reference for adjudication.
Steve P, even the JS book has what I perceive as mistakes. While I do not have one in front of me, if I recall correctly I believe it states that the engine manifold studs are supposed to be domed. After reading that, I removed the manifolds & studs from an engine on a fine-point car we are working on as it did not have a dome on the end of any stud. After a search of all of my core engines did not produce any I called James Rogers and had him look through his cores for correct studs. Finally I called a JSC member and asked him if he had any. He had also found this out and we came to the conclusion that maybe the word "inverted" just before the word dome was ommited. Now to add confusion, I understand the E28 engines possibly did indeed have a domed headed manifold stud. So what is a restorer to do? IMO, it boils down to restore the vehicle as accurately as you desire using what resources & information available that you deem as correct.
To me the bigger question might be; Which is more important to you, -the accuracy of your Car, ...or the accuracy of the adjudication your car receives?
To me it is more about the car and the process involved to get there.
The other thought I have often pondered is, what would happen if the point system was kept a secret after adjudication? In other words, the car owner would never know the total points scored, --just what the judge felt was correct or incorrect about the owner's vehicle. Personally I feel the points are what causes most of the hostility and hard feelings in the fine-point evaluation process. How often do you hear "I lost 3 points because of ...." instead of "It appears I have an incorrect ______." So is the importance the car -or the points? Based on Ward and I trying to detail a reproduction battery, I would say the present focus is more on trying to score another few points over the car beside us! Also, factor in what Marco stated about a car with a repro battery still scoring 499.5 points, it proves that there is a 'point game' within this judging system that many play to strategize where points can be gained or lost towards the total score. Therefore is it really more about scoring the most points, or is it about the car's authentic restoration?
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Since French Lick got mentioned, another "for example" is the colors. MARC has not adopted the Paint & Refinish Guide. Some will argue that this was done many years ago however it has been revised several times and it has never been voted on to adopt the revs. by the MARC JSC. Therefore (at least in my opinion) it is unethical for a judge to use that book during MARC fine-point competition, -even when the Chief Judge has instructed Team Captains not to use it. None the less, this book was used as reference in French Lick and in San Diego.
On the flip side, while I mentioned about referring to Mick's book above, I probably should have re-phrased that because if I recall correctly, the fastener finishes are listed in the Ford Parts Price List books too, ...which is listed as an accepted reference for adjudication.
Steve P, even the JS book has what I perceive as mistakes. While I do not have one in front of me, if I recall correctly I believe it states that the engine manifold studs are supposed to be domed. After reading that, I removed the manifolds & studs from an engine on a fine-point car we are working on as it did not have a dome on the end of any stud. After a search of all of my core engines did not produce any I called James Rogers and had him look through his cores for correct studs. Finally I called a JSC member and asked him if he had any. He had also found this out and we came to the conclusion that maybe the word "inverted" just before the word dome was ommited. Now to add confusion, I understand the E28 engines possibly did indeed have a domed headed manifold stud. So what is a restorer to do? IMO, it boils down to restore the vehicle as accurately as you desire using what resources & information available that you deem as correct.
To me the bigger question might be; Which is more important to you, -the accuracy of your Car, ...or the accuracy of the adjudication your car receives?
To me it is more about the car and the process involved to get there. The other thought I have often pondered is, what would happen if the point system was kept a secret after adjudication? In other words, the car owner would never know the total points scored, --just what the judge felt was correct or incorrect about the owner's vehicle. Personally I feel the points are what causes most of the hostility and hard feelings in the fine-point evaluation process. How often do you hear "I lost 3 points because of ...." instead of "It appears I have an incorrect ______." So is the importance the car -or the points? Based on Ward and I trying to detail a reproduction battery, I would say the present focus is more on trying to score another few points over the car beside us! Also, factor in what Marco stated about a car with a repro battery still scoring 499.5 points, it proves that there is a 'point game' within this judging system that many play to strategize where points can be gained or lost towards the total score. Therefore is it really more about scoring the most points, or is it about the car's authentic restoration?
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