My First Issue

mjm1972 said:
Whats better the Zinc or Brass?
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of b etter as neither is better. The zinc is correct for 30-31 and the brass in correct for 28-29.

This is one of those things where it is just as easy to match the way the car was to come off the assembly as not.
 
BUY the NEW leakless water pump and the new aluminum fan. The one with the zinc nut that is proper for your car. JMO
Paul in CT

You were very lucky with that radiator.
 
If you want the best pump,get the Rupert extreme duty mentioned earlier. It is identical to the original pump on the outside,but is leakless and you do not have to grease it. I drive my A on long trips and this pump will last.

Good luck with your new A

John
 
Ed said:
I was advised to purchase a leakless pump rather than rebuild my original. I have found this to be very good advice. The leakless pump has provided 4 years of trouble free service and still going strong. I have the same style fan yhat you had on yours. So far no problems. ( I check it often) So I don't have any info on the aluminum fans.

I do recall at one time there was a balancing issue with the aluminum fans. I do not know if this issue has been resolved with the new aluminum fans. Perhaps someone else can offer more information about this.

As far as cost of the leakless water pump is concerned, If I recall correctly it cost a little over $150.00. I remember at the time it didn't cost much more than the parts required to rebuild an original pump. I believe the old housing needed to be returned as a core.
Click to expand...


I do appreciate all t he advice on here and want to see more and I know you all know 1000% more then I do on these cars, but my take on this is the cars have lasted this long and for the most part they last this long because of the original parts in most cases, this is why I’m head strong about keeping as much original parts on the car as I can.

I only will put American made parts in it if they have to be aftermarket part. And for me to return and original part back to a company as a core and get an after market part back is not going to happen. If that company used an original water pump housing then that would be a great option. For my first car I want to do what I think is right for it and by it. And again im not knocking aftermarket parts and anyone who used them as more then likely I will have to go that route, (if they are not USA made then im knocking) lol.
 
A good friend of mine saw the same fan failure put a blade thru the hood of his just finished 1928 Phaeton. Broke off the other side and drove it home with a hole in the hood.
 
Wow how did you not take out the rad? My casting on the 31tudor had a good crack on inspection last year. Replaced it the next day! Rads are expensive
 
Probably the American made original style Pump on page A130 of the Snyders 2012 catalog will be your best bet. I am refering to the A-8501 pump that lists for $84.00. This pump could be greased just like the original , if it dripped you could tighten the packing nut, just like original, this can't be done with the leakless pumps. When it wore out, you could add packing or rebuild it, not so with some of the leakless pumps. This would give you a pump that you could work with. I f you decided later on that the original style pump was too much trouble, you could rebuild it as a leakless pump with the parts that are available. I've ran an original on my rusty 29 tudor since 93. I just back the pack nut off grease it and tighten the pack nut as necessary. I would avoid the leakproof pumps and rebuild kits that have the black seal that shows in the front of the packing nut, these will be a source of irritation and give poor service. I remember the first new original style pump that I got in 61 from Warshawsky and co. in Chicago, It sold for the whopping sum of $4.50 and I've still got it.
 
Ok, Sooo.. I got the water Pump out, and with out having to take the radiator off, and I’m assuming it was due to the nature of the angel of the bent water pump shaft, so not to bad on that. However due to that angel of the bend on the shaft it aloud it to reach out and touch the Generator pulley, causing damage to the pulley and quiet possible the Generator in all. So with all that I have found, this leads to my next of many question if you all don’t mind...

Question- Should the pulley on the generator turn freely with out any binds or resistance?

( I turned it, but not to force it, and it binds up, could only turn it about ¼ of a way in both directions, and it started giving me resistance, more then I would expect).

I will Attach pictures of the Pump out and in pieces and of the Generators pulley, some im sure will be shocked at the state of the water pump break due to some of your comments. I also believe that this was a aftermarket Model A (Brass Nut) Leakless Water Pump. And I’m hoping with pictures one of you could tell me. The finish on the water pump housing was too smooth and new looking to me, but what do I know its just my take.
 
I would check out that generator. there should be no interference in turning the pulley, that could have contributed to the water pump casting break. It could be a bad bearing or bent pulley rubbing a screw.
 
As Barry said, you'd better remove the generator and see what the problem is. The hit may have caused the wires inside to loose a bit of insulation (enamel) and short out, so be sure to test the armature on a growler and check the fields for shorts. If you connect a 6 volt battery charger to the field windings, they should draw about 3.5 to 4 amps.

I wouldn't think the armature shaft got bent, but check it out. The front bearing may be damaged and be the cause of the bind.
 
And I thought April 1 was a couple of weeks ago.
No way a rebuild kit will do anything with that pump.
You CAN remove a four blade fan without pulling the radiator.
Loosen one end of headlight bar and remove all bolts from other end of headlight bar.
That should permit radiator to lean forward after removing hose.
Consider getting those pump stud bolt replacements that permit pump removal in future without doing that task.
Good luck.
All old fan blades are just WAITING to jump off at the wrong time. You were fortunate it didn't go through the radiator or hood.
 
I like my six blade plastic fan. Obviously it doesn't look original, but then I have an alternator and an oil filter and modern points and a shortened pitman arm too.
 
Here are some new pics of my issue.. and a probable cause.. When I was driving it at the time of this incident I had given the car some gas when I was to double clutch / shift the car in which I have not perfected yet, so im thinking the fan had already had a crack in the blade and was for sure off balance, so when I revved it up the fan went from a slower RPM to a higher then normal RPM. That I think broke the Camels back. So off came the fan blade into the underside of the top of the denting the hood and a good chunk of paint flew off. With the 3 fan blades left, already in a wobble and more so now, in that high RPM state came the next collision with the Generator pulley, more issues, but not still as much as it could have been, aka the Radiator.



I know a rebuild kit will do nothing for that water pump housing, as it is cracked and FUBAR as the pictures shows, However I do think I can get a rebuild kit, and put it in the other original water pump housing that I had mentioned I had before. Please correct me If I am wrong, If I cant use after market rebuild kit with original part.

And as for the Considering getting those pump stud bolt replacements that permit pump removal in future without doing that task. Are you talking about the 4 studs that come out of the motor that is securing the water pump housing? And how would that be done? And wouldn’t I have to cut them off?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2995.jpg
    IMG_2995.jpg
    52.3 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_2994.jpg
    IMG_2994.jpg
    49.8 KB · Views: 41
  • IMG_2998.jpg
    IMG_2998.jpg
    64.1 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_2999.jpg
    IMG_2999.jpg
    79 KB · Views: 37
Last edited:
Tom Wesenberg said:
As Barry said, you'd better remove the generator and see what the problem is. The hit may have caused the wires inside to loose a bit of insulation (enamel) and short out, so be sure to test the armature on a growler and check the fields for shorts. If you connect a 6 volt battery charger to the field windings, they should draw about 3.5 to 4 amps.

I wouldn't think the armature shaft got bent, but check it out. The front bearing may be damaged and be the cause of the bind.
Click to expand...


I think all what you said is going on with my Generator... whats one of these cost ? and if the housing is original Id like to know if it can be rebuilt?
 
Mike,

I think that we can come up with the parts that you need to service your generator here in town, we can check out your armature on my growler that is over at Bill W's. If need be he probably has another armature, I'm reasonably certain that he will have a replacement pulley also. All is not lost.
Bill is working 7-10's for the summer, so I will have to contact him in the evening, hopefully we can have your generator up and running by the time you get your water pump parts.

I am supposed to re-time Bill's brother's '29 Roadster sometime today, I am trying to catch a little NASCAR at the moment.

Darryl in Fairbanks
 
What is that jammed between the pulley and front end plate?
Maybe that's the problem with not turning.
As long as you are ordering parts, the cutout mounting screws should be slotted instead of Phillips. Also make sure they aren't too long and hitting the field windings.
 
Does not look like the front bearing on the generator has be oiled recently. Could the bearing have froze?
 
mjm1972 said:
However I do think I can get a rebuild kit, and put it in the other original water pump housing that I had mentioned I had before. Please correct me If I am wrong, If I cant use after market rebuild kit with original part.
Click to expand...

Yes you can. As for a leakless pump, really, is tightening the nut really that hard? I mean we spend alot of time greasing what seems like a thousand fittings and we don't want to turn a nut a 1/4 turn if we see a drip?

(I did rebuild my last water pump with the leakless kit.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top