Engine Machine Shops Rejections

RobWi

Member
New to this, but have been around a while. My kids like to ask me what it was like before the continents separated, but that is another story.
What I can say is that I was born a car guy, in a car guy family, so I have had my share of experiences with automotive machine shops. Of course, that was some time ago, it has been decades since personally utilizing or needed engine machining services.
But that was then, and this is now.
Picked up a 1947 59A that a local dug up out of his yard where a barn used to be thirty years ago, it is now a subdivision. He offered it to me for free, straight from his backhoe. The dirt pretty much preserved it once I managed to wash it off, but somewhere along the line the exhaust manifolds rusted almost completely away, and the carburetor had been busted off. Pretty sure that is why the cylinders, the intake manifold, and both the intake and exhaust ports were stuffed with dirt and mud.
Me, being whom I am, never shies away from a challenge. Not generally known to have the patience of a saint, I did on this one. Took me the better part of five months to slowly disassemble with the care most archeologists do not possess.
As the object slowly ascended and presented itself, issues began to jump out. All of which I had or have seen in the past, none of which had deterred me back then. But this being a flathead, which I have not had any experience with since my father sold his prized 1940 Deluxe Ford Business coupe to keep me from possibly driving it. Just a note, he purchased the car when he was seventeen and kept it until I was fifteen. He had it 23 years! He only drove it occasionally though since he had multiple everyday vehicles. He never let me work on it. Hence, no experience with flatheads.
Back to the current issue. There are multiple rough bores, lots of rust, and the worst part, cracked cylinders. Definitely caused by water freezing in the cylinders. The good news, only thermal cracks, using acetone wash that I could find were between the head stud and closest water hole. Nothing to worry about there.
So, I put the word out that I would like a professional assessment as to the feasibility of resurrecting the block.
Over the last month I have contacted every machine shop within a two hundred mile radius(Wisconsin) to inquire. None have actually seen the block, just my description as stated above. Every last one of them pushed back, some outright rejection, some questioning as to why bother, a couple tried to offer other projects. One said he had a cracked FE block that he would sell me if I wanted that sleeved. Another could not understand why I don't build a small block China Motors (a chevy... not for me, built a hundred of them back in the day).
So, in ya'll infinite wisdom, is there any suggestions as to who might have the expertise and gumption to assess and possibly perform the work of resurrecting my 1947 59A block with at least three cracked cylinders?
 

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I'd be more concerned with the lifter bores and the new seats it's going to need. There may be other cracks in the block that you can't yet see.
 
I'd be more concerned with the lifter bores and the new seats it's going to need. There may be other cracks in the block that you can't yet see.
Lifter bores actually look pretty good. The valve seats are definitely in need of replacing. I will yank a few out. Plan is to go to 1.7 intakes and 1.6 exhaust if the block can be saved.

The whole goal is to get it hot tanked/chemical and ultra sounded for a complete assessment.
 
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If you can get it back together, and purring like flatheads do, it will make a heck of a story. I read a story in a model A club magazine from the 70's about an A that fell through the ice while fishing in the mid 30's. From local lore they located it and brought it up. After a group of dedicated club members worked on it for 3 days, they were able to drive it out of the garage. I read that about 25 yrs ago and I still remember it. Now if only I could remember our anniversary.... Please keep us informed as the story unfolds.
 
Way back when, back when I was racing circle track cars on a beer budget against champagne competition I was offered a Ford 427 Side oiler engine that a top competitor blew up. Put a piston through a cylinder wall and took a gouge out of the one next to it. Needless to say, a lot of people said it was junk.
At the time, I had access to an old German Master Mechanic (what we call a Master Tool and Die person, only better). He had an ancient boring machine, a WWII mechanical lathe, and old tools from the turn of the century... the last century. He did not like me being told that it cannot be done. On weekends and late nights, he stood over my shoulder and taught me how to use that equipment.
We sleeved all eight cylinders, took a thrown out crank from a FT 361 Ford truck, turned down the snout to fit an FE, used bob weights to balance the whole assembly. The 427 became a 396, I twisted that engine well over 8 grand at times. Won a bunch of races and at the end of the season... sold it back to the guy that had cast it aside as junk for enough money to buy a brand new race car.
 
Sorry, but you won't like my response...When it comes to resurrecting anything old, find the best example you can, it'll cost a bundle, more than the ultimate restored contraption is worth. Sure, anything can be saved if you put enough time and $$$, particularly the $$$$$, but in this case, find yourself a better core assembly to start from. Rebuilding from scratch a 'repairable' block is an expensive enough undertaking. Clean yours up and make it into a coffee table.
 
Brian is giving you the most sensible advice.
Keep looking and you will find a much better block and save you $$$.
 
Since you're keen to see if it can be resurrected, have it hot tanked and then baked, then shot-peened, then magged. Once you've done all of this, you'll have a much better idea as to what you have to work with - or not.

If it passes the above, then have the block pressure tested to make sure there are no internal/fatal cracks (like in the exhaust passages).

If it doesn't have any fatal cracks, then it can probably be saved . . . just requires quite a few machine shop operations.

You'll put a lot of time and $$$ into it - more than if you found a "better" block, but the challenge might be worth it to you!
 
Since you're keen to see if it can be resurrected, have it hot tanked and then baked, then shot-peened, then magged. Once you've done all of this, you'll have a much better idea as to what you have to work with - or not.

If it passes the above, then have the block pressure tested to make sure there are no internal/fatal cracks (like in the exhaust passages).

If it doesn't have any fatal cracks, then it can probably be saved . . . just requires quite a few machine shop operations.

You'll put a lot of time and $$$ into it - more than if you found a "better" block, but the challenge might be worth it to you!

X2. You really won't know much until it's cleaned up and magnafluxed.
 
Sorry, but you won't like my response...When it comes to resurrecting anything old, find the best example you can, it'll cost a bundle, more than the ultimate restored contraption is worth. Sure, anything can be saved if you put enough time and $$$, particularly the $$$$$, but in this case, find yourself a better core assembly to start from. Rebuilding from scratch a 'repairable' block is an expensive enough undertaking. Clean yours up and make it into a coffee table.

This is the exact same response I have been getting from several machine shops. Keep in mind, they have not seen the block, not even in my pictures.

The object is not what it will be worth. Value cannot be created without personal success and achievement. Money is not edible and if one shows it off they reduce the value of their character, it is what they achieve and succeed at that they are respected for. To take what cannot be done is commendable, or take an easy path is not commendable.

I am almost at the point of purchasing the equipment myself to hot tank/chemical clean/magnaflux/and ultrasound the block in my own garage.
 
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Since you're keen to see if it can be resurrected, have it hot tanked and then baked, then shot-peened, then magged. Once you've done all of this, you'll have a much better idea as to what you have to work with - or not.

If it passes the above, then have the block pressure tested to make sure there are no internal/fatal cracks (like in the exhaust passages).

If it doesn't have any fatal cracks, then it can probably be saved . . . just requires quite a few machine shop operations.

You'll put a lot of time and $$$ into it - more than if you found a "better" block, but the challenge might be worth it to you!

Pretty much what I am asking these machine shops to do, willing to pay to have it done. If they are honest about it. Have done as much visual inspection as I can. Have used acetone swab method to uncover small, minute cracks between head studs and water jacket holes on deck. Other than the cracks in the actual cylinders, cannot find any web cracks or port cracks. Waiting for my son to bring over my bore camera to check the exhaust passages but have already used putty to close off the center exhaust passage and get 10psi sustained overnight. No leak down, but that only sealed off the portion between 5&6 and 2&3 between the outside port and where the passage "Y"s between the valve exhaust ports. About 3 inches.
Picture shows the only cracks I could find
 

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I have both a complete 8 A EAB and 8A EAC engines that turn over (cost me a whopping $75 for both of them). In addition, have an old racer buddy (he is now in his eighties) that said I can clean out his barn (it will take a lot of work), they are all inside a dry environment. He has an assortment of flatheads he said I can have if I clean the barn. So far counted twelve 24 studs, four 21 studs, and 3 V8 60's. So, as of now, do not need to buy any just because.
Task seems a bit daunting for a seventy two year old man, but might enlist my sons to help (I will have to pay them).

Thanks for the leads though. How about machine services that can hot tank/chem clean/ and magnaflux?
 
Pretty much what I am asking these machine shops to do, willing to pay to have it done. If they are honest about it. Have done as much visual inspection as I can. Have used acetone swab method to uncover small, minute cracks between head studs and water jacket holes on deck. Other than the cracks in the actual cylinders, cannot find any web cracks or port cracks. Waiting for my son to bring over my bore camera to check the exhaust passages but have already used putty to close off the center exhaust passage and get 10psi sustained overnight. No leak down, but that only sealed off the portion between 5&6 and 2&3 between the outside port and where the passage "Y"s between the valve exhaust ports. About 3 inches.
Picture shows the only cracks I could find
591125
 
You could set up electrolytic rust removal or the molasses de rust
what is the existing bore size? I took a little sliver of wood and put a pin through it to figure depth of pitting to help determine how much more it would take to clean up.
The ultrasonic thickness gauge is not that expensive.
Magnaflux on the cheap— use armature growler and make .001 or so cuts on brake lathe to make powder ( the real powder is not that expensive though and works better)
How large is your garage? Do you have 3 phase power— those machines usually cheaper because most home shops don’t have it
Of course the older machine shop equipment that is reasonably priced will need repairs and calibration (read machine tool reconditioning and principles of hand scraping by Edward Connelly)
Study cast Iron welding— the rust around the #7 exhaust seat looks like it is well beyond the seat.
A milling machine and a lathe is handy — of course tight accurate ones cost more but since you read the book you will know how to fix that.
A nice granite surface plate for measuring against and some measuring tools— don’t forget the standards to check accuracy
Soon your wife will be telling her friends that you have a “girlfriend “ — it is that new machine in the garage that you are restoring to work on your block
 
This is the exact same response I have been getting from several machine shops. Keep in mind, they have not seen the block, not even in my pictures.

The object is not what it will be worth. Value cannot be created without personal success and achievement. Money is not edible and if one shows it off they reduce the value of their character, it is what they achieve and succeed at that they are respected for. To take what cannot be done is commendable, or take an easy path is not commendable.

I am almost at the point of purchasing the equipment myself to hot tank/chemical clean/magnaflux/and ultrasound the block in my own garage.


Let's get this party started. Of course it isn't practical, but what IS in this hobby we call 'old cars'?
 
Exactly... this is not about practical, it is about self attained goals that make satisfying life experiences. It is about doing what others will not or cannot, while I can still get up on my own two feet.

Just do not understand why the commercial machine shops I have contacted, that even have their services posted with pricing online, reject the business.

They might feel that this is a vanity project for me, and to some extent it is. But I also have an underlying sentimental reason for this particular engine.
 
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