53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

[Son of a Ford]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Brass 4 core radiator. The fan is almost touching the radiator an inch or less. Thermostats were not tested but with the coolant in that upper tank reaching 215 thermostats may have failed open at this point.

I wish I could put shrouds on but that isn’t an option for this car.

 

[Ziggster]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

If it’s 107F, that’s fairly extreme. For every degree rise in ambient air temp you can expect an equivalent rise in coolant temp with all else being equal. Not saying that the high ambient is your problem, but it’s also not a typical ambient temp folks assume when having issues with overheating. My C69A running at idle would start to overheat within 3-4 minutes at an ambient of about 80F. I have other issues, but gives you an idea.

 

[Son of a Ford]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

4 core brass radiator, fan is about just less than an inch of the radiator, new thermostats weren’t tested before install.

I wish I could install shrouds on this car but that wouldn’t be true to what it was.

 

[tubman]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

He stated his timing is a 10 BTDC, wouldn't that be more "advanced" than being a 4 Btdc?

In any event, he should bring it back to stock for a start. Years ago, I had a 276" Merc that always ran hot. I now believe that it was due to an MSD distributor that had too much advance (Chevrolet curve).

 

[petehoovie]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

4 core brass radiator, fan is about just less than an inch of the radiator, new thermostats weren’t tested before install.

I wish I could install shrouds on this car but that wouldn’t be true to what it was.

 

[tubman]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

After looking at the enlarged pictures, I can't really tell what distributor is installed. It looks like a stocker to me (it's not a Mallory, MSD, Accel, or even a converted SBC). There is no vacuum line attached to it. so it could be there is no advance whatsoever (which would explain the 10 BTDC advance as a compromise). We need more information on the ignition to really help.

 

[Ziggster]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

I know it must be an issue of perspective, but what is this? Something looks off.

 

[Christopher Salty]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

A minute is really quick. My temperature gauges don’t even start moving in a minute.

I’d try one of those test kits that checks for combustion/exhaust gases in the coolant. Yes, I read your post about the oil and antifreeze not being mixed, but that’s still an incredible amount of heat to get that much coolant boiling in only a minute at idle.

For comparison, I could remove the thermostats from Henry, let him idle for a minute, shut him off, and I could still put my hand on the heads.

A head gasket can leak between a cylinder and the cooling system without necessarily mixing the oil and coolant. Coolant can also leak into a cylinder and get burned off as steam, sometimes without being very noticeable.

I found a head-gasket leak that way once—the spark plug from the leaking cylinder looked noticeably different from the others, almost like it had been steam cleaned. I’d pull the plugs and compare them, along with doing a combustion-gas test on the coolant.

 

[38 coupe]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Welcome to the Ford Barn, I like the testing you are doing, particularly the thermometer in the radiator.

Several questions to help us help you:

1. Have you had this car run cool before, and now it is getting hot? If yes, what was changed?
2. How are you determining TDC? The stock 8BA timing cover and crank pulley have a pointer and bump respectively, but they are not at TDC (4 BTDC if I remember correctly)
3. Have you tried running the car with a stock intake, carburetor, and distributor? I like a stock engine baseline to verify everything is working correctly before making changes that affect tune and cooling. A few years back I worked on a club member's 8BA equipped with a Stromberg 97 and modern Mallory distributor that ran warm, we solved that by installing a correct 8BA carburetor and distributor set at proper timing.
4. Where in Texas are you? Several of us here live in various parts of Texas and have experience with flatheads and 100+ F conditions. I find a good 8BA will run 80-90 F over ambient so your car is definitely running hotter than it should. I also prefer 180 F thermostats in 8BA engines (I use 160 stats in pre-war engines in south Texas).
5. Not a question just an opinion, I also prefer not to exceed 7 psi cap on an 8BA. I don't see any reason to add pressure to the water pumps and radiator.
6. When you run the engine with the radiator cap off do you see bubbles in the coolant? If yes, those could be exhaust gases from a leaking head gasket or a crack and no radiator that fits into a car will keep an engine doing that cool.

I see you have posted pictures in an album including a few where you were cleaning the cooling passages. I don't recognize the distributor, but maybe someone else on here will.

 

[marko39]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

sounds like you may still have air in system. i found filling system with front of car elevated helps get air out.

 

[19Fordy]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

What happens if you don't use any thermostats?

 

[Son of a Ford]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Welcome to the Ford Barn, I like the testing you are doing, particularly the thermometer in the radiator.

Several questions to help us help you:

1. Have you had this car run cool before, and now it is getting hot? If yes, what was changed?
2. How are you determining TDC? The stock 8BA timing cover and crank pulley have a pointer and bump respectively, but they are not at TDC (4 BTDC if I remember correctly)
3. Have you tried running the car with a stock intake, carburetor, and distributor? I like a stock engine baseline to verify everything is working correctly before making changes that affect tune and cooling. A few years back I worked on a club member's 8BA equipped with a Stromberg 97 and modern Mallory distributor that ran warm, we solved that by installing a correct 8BA carburetor and distributor set at proper timing.
4. Where in Texas are you? Several of us here live in various parts of Texas and have experience with flatheads and 100+ F conditions. I find a good 8BA will run 80-90 F over ambient so your car is definitely running hotter than it should. I also prefer 180 F thermostats in 8BA engines (I use 160 stats in pre-war engines in south Texas).
5. Not a question just an opinion, I also prefer not to exceed 7 psi cap on an 8BA. I don't see any reason to add pressure to the water pumps and radiator.
6. When you run the engine with the radiator cap off do you see bubbles in the coolant? If yes, those could be exhaust gases from a leaking head gasket or a crack and no radiator that fits into a car will keep an engine doing that cool.

I see you have posted pictures in an album including a few where you were cleaning the cooling passages. I don't recognize the distributor, but maybe someone else on here will.

1.Cars been in the family for about 18 years but mostly a trailer queen to shows them stored for the last 10 years. As far as I can tell it has always ran hot, but wasn’t that big of a deal since it only needed torun for less than 5 minutes at a time.

2. Yes TDC is the little pointer lining up with the bump on the main pulley 6½-inch pulley: 10° BTDC ≈ 0.567 inches (roughly 9/16 inch. I took a Dremel and marked 10° and 20° with a small cut. If I’m going to set it to 4° BTDC I’ll make another mark just under a 1/4 inch before the bump.

3. It has a Mallory coil not sure the distributor but the Stromberg 97s have to stay for historical reasons.

4. DFW Area

5. Agree with not needing to change the radiator cap, temperature is the problem not premature coolant evacuation.

6. No bubbles in the coolant.

 

[kurt v]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Have you tried any of that WATER WETTER coolant stuff ?

 

[tubman]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

What happens if you don't use any thermostats?

That may work with the earlier engines, but 8BA's are different and benefit from the use of thermostats. I wouldn't start down that road.

It's been so long since I ran a stock distributor that I have literally forgotten what they look like, but I think that is a stock unit (the exterior mounted condenser does give me pause). The stock distributors are vacuum advance ONLY. The engine won't run correctly without the proper vacuum signal from the proper carb. All the rest of this is moot until we learn more about the distributor. I you want to keep the 97's you will have to run a mechanical advance distributor (these days, either an old Mallory dual-point or a converted SBC unit).

 

[F1 MIKE]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Do a combustion leak test.

 

[Son of a Ford]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

So I’ve set the timing to 4 degrees BTDC and retuned the carbs, vacuum at the manifold is now about 16-17 lbs of vacuum.

Lifted the front of the car while running with the cap off but with there being full coolant in the radiator it’s hard to tell if the bubbles that are sitting on the top are from a constant stream or just residual from heat and sloshing around.

I don’t think the distributor is stock but might be a Mallory that was paired with the coil.

Prior to all this I did a compression test and all cylinders were just above 100ps.

Still only got about 10 minutes of run time before hitting the top of the gauge.

Forgot to bring out the thermometer for the coolant in the radiator check but I imagine it’s the same as before.

 

[Ziggster]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Asking Google AI about flathead overheating issues, it suggested that the stock mechanical fan may have trouble pulling air through a thick 4-core radiator. You might want to check with a piece of paper on the radiator inlet surface to see if the paper sticks.

 

[Son of a Ford]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

I can feel the air pulling in the center but out on the corners there’s little to no air flow.

But having the hood open creates an opening for airflow to go around the radiator instead of through it.

It just seams like this should all work together and not be as complicated as it is.

The only thing I can think of is that there’s a component of this system that is incorrect from the start.

The fan pulls plenty of air just not at the corners.

 

[glennpm]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

I can feel the air pulling in the center but out on the corners there’s little to no air flow.

But having the hood open creates an opening for airflow to go around the radiator instead of through it.

Are there sheet metal panels on either side of the radiator, such that air can't bypass the radiator with the hood closed. I have a '40 which does have such sheet metal. I don't know if the shoeboxes had the like.

You can see what the 40 uses, top, bottom and sides; within this link

https://cwmoss.com/collections/radiator/1940

 

[Ronnieroadster]

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Working on a 1950 Ford with an 8BA flathead that continues to run hotter than I’d like.
Here’s what has been done so far:
• Complete cooling system descaled and flushed (CLR, then neutralized and flushed thoroughly)
• New reproduction radiator
• New 160° thermostats with bleed holes drilled
• Both water pumps show good flow (confirmed with clear tubing during the flush)
• Both upper radiator hoses get hot within about a minute of running
• Timing currently set at approximately 10° BTDC
• No fan shroud installed
• 50/50 traditional green antifreeze and distilled water
With the radiator cap off, a thermometer in the neck reads about 215°F and slowly climbs. On a short drive it stabilizes at the top of the gauge. After the last drive, a small amount of coolant came out of the bypass hose once parked.
Any suggestions on what to look at next would be appreciated. Thanks.

You wrote above complete cooling system descaled and flushed. Question the heads were removed for this descaling?
Ronnieroadster