BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Is anyone actually restoring these now?
Powerhouse Generator Rebuilder - Do we have anyone restoring these??
- Thread starter BRENT in 10-uh-C
- Start date
Bruce of MN
Well-known member
Maybe @ndchf here on the Barn?
Bigsnapper43
Senior Member
I have 2 restored by John Holland. Specify brush count and rear cover. Give me a call 740 658 3495.
ndnchf
Well-known member
Thank you all for the kind words. Almost no new parts are available so they are a lot of work, but yes I restore both 3 and 5 brush powerhouse generators and can install an EVR too. I'll bring a couple to model A days at the Gilmore and fall Hershey.
Steve
Steve
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BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Thanks Steve. Yeah, that is the thing that is biting me with these, and I thought you & I had discussed the issues I was having with these. I will contact you again offline because I definitely gotta go in a different direction on these. If yours will stay reliable for longer than the guy I am using, then its gotta be better.
FWIW to the others reading this, I have 3 different Customers whom over the past year have had their restored Powerhouse Generators quit charging. It appears two of them are going to need the Armatures rewound, -and likely should have had them rewound when they were 'rebuilt'. I've got one that the Rebuilder retrofitted a different type of brush (-too small maybe?) and one of them fell out. I guess with these, there is a much finer line between the definition of repaired vs. rebuilt.
The reliability of these rebuilt units is a strong reminder of what Model-A generators were in the 1970s when those sucked so badly that hobbyists retrofitted Alternators where they had something that would get them home again after a day of touring..
ndnchf
Well-known member
Armatures are problematic because most shops won't touch them. One that did quoted me $425 to rewind it.
Good Bakelite rings, brushes, brush springs, and the little odd shape terminal post insulator that goes in the inside. All are scarce. I've scoured the world for brushes and have a decent supply. I have new field coils custom made for me. Truing up the armature commutator is difficult due to the taper shaft mounting. I use an original KR Wilson tool for this. Removing the 12 hardened pole shoe screws is another challenge. If they break off, it takes a carbide bit to drill them out.
It is very tedious work. I typically spend 14-15 hours on a powerhouse.
ndnchf
Well-known member
I'm ok with springs for now, but will keep that in mind. My son has 3D printed a few other parts for me. I'll talk to him about the insulator. That might just work.
Steve
Kurt in NJ
Well-known member
It a matter of economics for me stripping the old windings hand cutting the insulation for the ends of the lamination stack and re winding it was easy to have 6-8 hours in a armature— I could make a lot more replacing brake pads and rotors.
Field coils are less labor intensive but after setup and making a winding form it takes 15-20 minutes to wind and tape each coil with smaller ones taking longer.
There is also a big labor difference between a functional restoration where all the parts can be put into the beat it to death automatic cleaning machine and a restoration where all the stamping machining and mill scale still has to be evident.
What would you have to get for the job at your shop rate if it took 10-15 hours?
I used to get paid 1.6 hours for an alternator or starter rebuild for Mercedes with all the parts instantly available in bins and acess to the automatic parts cleaner .
Now I am trying to limit my jobs to people with deeper pockets that are happy to pay 1500$ for Packard V12 generator— and even that gets done only because it’s more interesting than making the same on a brake pad job.
what length warranty would the product need and would the warranty be voided due to externally induced failure.( My mother would give a 1 year unconditional warranty on the ones I rebuilt in the 70s— back then it worked out to 10-15$ a hour selling them at 45$ and I would sell 15-20 through the 5 flea market circuit we did — during the 4 years I was doing them she gave back my money on 2.
Field coils are less labor intensive but after setup and making a winding form it takes 15-20 minutes to wind and tape each coil with smaller ones taking longer.
There is also a big labor difference between a functional restoration where all the parts can be put into the beat it to death automatic cleaning machine and a restoration where all the stamping machining and mill scale still has to be evident.
What would you have to get for the job at your shop rate if it took 10-15 hours?
I used to get paid 1.6 hours for an alternator or starter rebuild for Mercedes with all the parts instantly available in bins and acess to the automatic parts cleaner .
Now I am trying to limit my jobs to people with deeper pockets that are happy to pay 1500$ for Packard V12 generator— and even that gets done only because it’s more interesting than making the same on a brake pad job.
what length warranty would the product need and would the warranty be voided due to externally induced failure.( My mother would give a 1 year unconditional warranty on the ones I rebuilt in the 70s— back then it worked out to 10-15$ a hour selling them at 45$ and I would sell 15-20 through the 5 flea market circuit we did — during the 4 years I was doing them she gave back my money on 2.
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ndnchf
Well-known member
I have several youtube videos about Powerhouse generators. A couple years ago I picked up a KR Wilson Powerhouse commutator lathe and mica undercutter. It was in rough shape, but I eventually restored it. This video shows the first time I tried it out. Quite an ingenius tool.
https://youtu.be/qMRXwjrjvg0?is=yqzt7rxQl9j_X1up
https://youtu.be/qMRXwjrjvg0?is=yqzt7rxQl9j_X1up
al's28/33
Well-known member
too bad no one ever reproduced that ring, or maybe soon someone with 3D printer knowledge could give a shot in the arm to this hobby with that idea. I'm sure there are quite a few of us that would hoard any new Powerhouse parts .... hint hint wink wink.... along with a FORD script front rubber floor mat, gee those are so cool!! ... but that reproduction run was small and very short lived.
rackops
Senior Member
I've toyed with the idea of getting the front and rear Phaeton floor mats with the "Ford" script reproduced, but geeeeze...the cost to create the molds is astronomical. Even getting them 3D printed was in the $500 range...each.
One would think that with all our technology now we could get them made easily and cheaply, but I haven't figured out how (and yes, I do need a set for my car...thus my quest!)
alexiskai
Well-known member
Great application of the technology.
Synchro909
Well-known member
It has been so long now since I sold a few Powerhouses that I can't even remember where I got them. Amongst the parts that went with them were a couple of replica Bakelite rings made from a compressed resin impregnated fabric. They had been machined in the old school way and were snapped up. These days, 3D printing would most likely be the best way to go.
FWIW, I have a working powerhouse generator with cutout that I have been trying to sell. There is no interest.
FWIW, I have a working powerhouse generator with cutout that I have been trying to sell. There is no interest.
ndnchf
Well-known member
The Powerhouse is an excellent, high quality generator. Im sure it was quite expensive to manufacture. Funny thing about them is that they are really too powerful for the needs of a stock model A. With the adjustable brush at the lowest setting they often still put out around 10 amps. They will push upwards of 20 amps at the high setting. At its lowest setting it is overcharging the battery unless the lights are on. This is where the EVR really shines. It contols the beast - both curent and voltage.
I think many people are leary of a Powerhouse because almost no one is willing to work on them and very few parts are available. When properly serviced they are very rugged and reliable. I enjoy the challenge of bringing them back to life. But they are very time consuming. I'm restoring a 5- brush right now. I'll bring a couple of them to model A days at the Gilmore in a couple weeks.
Steve
I think many people are leary of a Powerhouse because almost no one is willing to work on them and very few parts are available. When properly serviced they are very rugged and reliable. I enjoy the challenge of bringing them back to life. But they are very time consuming. I'm restoring a 5- brush right now. I'll bring a couple of them to model A days at the Gilmore in a couple weeks.
Steve