Clutch pedal question

Steves46

Steves46

Well-known member
On my 30 coupe, upon pressing the clutch pedal to the floor and putting it into gear, if I let off the brake with the clutch pedal still pushed all the way to the floor, the car starts moving. Something is certainly wrong but not sure what to do first Right now I have about 1 inch of play on the clutch pedal. Appreciate any guidance. Regards, Steve
 
Pilot bearing might be gummed up, allowing the input shaft/main drive gear to continue turning even with the clutch released.

Mine was...

Open the access panel in the clutch housing and see what's going on in there.

Does it shift OK? Does it work better when warmed up?

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Thank you. Yes it shifts fine. I think before I mess with the clutch pedal adjustment I will access the inspection plate it may be spray some brake cleaner on it.
 
Another thing to check is the clutch arm, the one that is attached to the shaft that goes into the housing to move the throwout bearing. Sometimes they crack. Have an assistant push on the pedal while you observe the arm. If it is cracked the crack will open up when the pedal is pushed. They crack at the rivet.
 
I know you know that if your car is moving the clutch is still engaged.

How long has this been going on?

Check the easy things first. Clutch adjustment first off, go on from there. Check anything that has to do with that adjusting. It could be a simple problem.

Good luck.
 
Good evening. I realize it’s been a while since I’ve provided any updates so here I go. I removed the inspection plate and adjusted the clutch pedal to 1 inch of play. Started the engine and confirm the throwout bearing was not making contact with the pressure plate. However, when I push the clutch pedal in and put it in gear, the car wanted to takeoff and immediately stalled. I reduce the clutch pedal play to half an inch however, at this point, the throwout bearing was making contact with the pressure plate when I fired up the car. However, when I put it in gear again, although it would not fully disengage, it would at least let me drive the car. I took a video of my clutch pedal operation with the throwout bearing in. It appears to have excellent throw so I’m a bit puzzled. What’s causing this. I had my daughter pushed a clutch pedal and did not detect any cracks in the clutch arm sure hate the thought of having to pull the engine so I appreciate if there’s any other last minute things I can check
 
Steves46 said:
Good evening. I realize it’s been a while since I’ve provided any updates so here I go. I removed the inspection plate and adjusted the clutch pedal to 1 inch of play. Started the engine and confirm the throwout bearing was not making contact with the pressure plate. However, when I push the clutch pedal in and put it in gear, the car wanted to takeoff and immediately stalled. I reduce the clutch pedal play to half an inch however, at this point, the throwout bearing was making contact with the pressure plate when I fired up the car. However, when I put it in gear again, although it would not fully disengage, it would at least let me drive the car. I took a video of my clutch pedal operation with the throwout bearing in. It appears to have excellent throw so I’m a bit puzzled. What’s causing this. I had my daughter pushed a clutch pedal and did not detect any cracks in the clutch arm sure hate the thought of having to pull the engine so I appreciate if there’s any other last minute things I can check
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Steve - there are two levels of "play" that you might be feeling. The first level of "play" is what you feel as the throwout bearing moves forward taking up the slack before the return spring tightens up. (The return spring attaches from the transmission to the top of the throwout bearing housing). At that point the throwout bearing will not be in contact with the pressure plate. Practically speaking, if you remove the adjustment clevis pin you can easily move the clutch arm from below up to this point.

The second level of "play" is after the return spring slack is taken up. When you move the throwout bearing forward from there you will encounter the pressure plate arms. That's the "free play" you want at 1" of pedal travel. The "free play" holds the throwout bearing just off the pressure plate arms. That travel (the "free play" you want to adjust) will be very difficult for you to move the clutch arm from below with the clevis removed. I find I have to put a piece of wood on the clutch arm and really strain to move it until I can get it far enough up to slide the clevis pin in. Some folks use a small jack for this purpose.

It sounds to me like the 1" of "free play" you've adjusted may be that first bit, not the second. If that's the case then when you then try to push in the clutch pedal, you will not have enough travel to fully (if at all) disengage the pressure plate.

To put it another way, when you have properly adjusted "free play" you will have extended the return spring to a certain degree with the pedal at rest. That spring tension is what holds the clutch pedal up.
 
JayJay, thank you very much for your explanation and agree I will need to work the 2nd part of the adjustment. So if I understand correctly, after I adjust the pedal to 1 inch of free play, the 2nd part involves removing the clevis pin and raising the arm to where the throw out bearing just off the pressure plate and then reattach the clevis pin. Am I on target?
 
Steves46 said:
JayJay, thank you very much for your explanation and agree I will need to work the 2nd part of the adjustment. So if I understand correctly, after I adjust the pedal to 1 inch of free play, the 2nd part involves removing the clevis pin and raising the arm to where the throw out bearing just off the pressure plate and then reattach the clevis pin. Am I on target?
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Sorry, I'm having difficulty following your description. You cannot properly adjust the free play without removing the clevis pin. There is only one place to make that adjustment. Here's how I adjust the free play:

1. Lash your clutch pedal in the full up position. I use a bungee cord to the seat frame to do this. I'd also suggest that you remove the upper floorboard so you have more room and visual.

2. Remove the cotter pin from the clevis that connects the clutch adjusting rod (the fork-shaped thing) to the clutch arm. You won't reinsert the cotter pin until the end.

3. Remove the clevis pin. You will likely have to push up on the clutch arm to get enough slack to push out the clevis. That will leave the clutch adjusting rod threaded into the trunnion nut (the round thing about 5/8" diameter and maybe an inch or so long that goes into the U-shaped saddle on the clutch pedal) disconnected from the clutch arm and dangling from the clutch pedal. You adjust the free play by screwing this adjusting arm in and out of the trunnion nut.

4. With the adjusting arm disconnected (clevis out), push up on the clutch arm until it stops. This is the #1 free play I described earlier.

5. Keep pushing up on the clutch arm (much harder now) until the second time it stops. This is the #2 free play I described.

6. Take note of the position of the clutch arm when it is somewhere between #1 and #2. Wth the clutch pedal in the full upright position, screw the adjusting arm in or out of the trunnion nut so that the holes in the adjusting arm saddle line will up with the hole in the clutch arm when the clutch arm is re-raised to the position you noted earlier. Push the clutch arm up into the adjustment arm saddle and insert the clevis pin. This is the part that usually requires much strength, perhaps an extra set of hands, and much cussing. Beer helps.

7. Remove the bungee and check the pedal free play. If there is over 1" of free play in the pedal, push up on the clutch arm to remove tension, remove the clevis, drop the clutch arm out of the adjusting arm saddle, and screw in the adjusting rod. Reinsert the clevis (more strength, extra hands, cussing and beer). If there is less than 1", do this but back out the adjusting rod. Try only moving the adjusting rod a turn or so at a time, with enough repetitions you will find yourself getting closer. You will likely be about mid-travel on the adjusting rod.

8. When you are satisfied, insert a new cotter pin into the clevis.
 
Jay Jay has some good instructions. It may help to temporally remove the throwout bearing return spring when you do the adjustment. After properly adjusting the clutch if the problem persists then you have a problem with the clutch and the engine has to be removed to disassemble the clutch.

Snyders sells a clutch adjuster that makes adjusting the clutch much easier. See https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=979058&cat=41664
 
nkaminar said:
Jay Jay has some good instructions. It may help to temporally remove the throwout bearing return spring when you do the adjustment. After properly adjusting the clutch if the problem persists then you have a problem with the clutch and the engine has to be removed to disassemble the clutch.

Snyders sells a clutch adjuster that makes adjusting the clutch much easier. See https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=979058&cat=41664
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Crawled under the car, disconnected the adjustment arm from the pedal-I was able to move the arm up & down so I suspect the Trunnion is pretty worn. I will be ordering clutch adjuster Synders sells. Keeping my fingers crossed this bit of play was contributing to the problem.
 
One possible issue has not been discussed. Have you measured the distance from the pressure plate housing to the fingers. If they are improperly set, it could be possible the pressure plate is not releasing the clutch disk. That can cause you clutch to not completely release. The fingers need to be set a depth of either 5/8" or 11/16" from the back of the pressure plate.
I almost once pulled my trans because the clutch was not disengaging. Turns out the original clutch arm cracked and prevented the clutch from completely disengaging. Check this one out as well.
 
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Dick M said:
One possible issue has not been discussed. Have you measured the distance from the pressure plate housing to the fingers. If they are improperly set, it could be possible the pressure plate is not releasing the clutch disk. That can cause you clutch to not completely release. The fingers need to be set a depth of either 5/8" or 11/16" from the back of the pressure plate.
I almost once pulled my trans because the clutch was not disengaging. Turns out the original clutch arm cracked and prevented the clutch from completely disengaging. Check this one out as well.
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I will take a look on the depth of the fingers. Sounds like this will be tricky with the Engine still in the car.
 
Steves46 said:
I will take a look on the depth of the fingers. Sounds like this will be tricky with the Engine still in the car.
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Steve - see the email I just sent you. No, you really can't adjust the fingers with the transmission in the car, the throwout bearing gets in the way.
 
So you are positive the arm is not cracked? If you don't have a helper, get a 2 x 4 and cut it. Make it long enough to put the other end up against the front of the seat. Get under there with a super bright flashlight.
 
Honestly, I cannot 100% confirm the arm is not cracked. Sure wish I could therefore I’d least would know what the problem is. I did place a small mirror to get a visual on the top where the pin is and could not see any cracks. I do plan on crawling under their with brighter. Lights to check again. However, I didn’t notice oil seeping out around the circular part of the arm if you were to look straight at it from the side. Is this possibly an issue?
 
Steves46 said:
Honestly, I cannot 100% confirm the arm is not cracked. Sure wish I could therefore I’d least would know what the problem is. I did place a small mirror to get a visual on the top where the pin is and could not see any cracks. I do plan on crawling under their with brighter. Lights to check again. However, I didn’t notice oil seeping out around the circular part of the arm if you were to look straight at it from the side. Is this possibly an issue?
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You should not have a great deal of oil inside the clutch chamber to worry about seepage around the shaft.

I believe that where you generally find cracks in the clutch arm is either across where the arm attaches to the housing (the part around the shaft), or in the housing around where the pin goes through (weaker because of the hole). Any movement of significance would be clearly visible from the side as the pedal is pushed. Critical to have someone push on the pedal completely down while you are looking. I know I've seen either a photo or a video of a cracked arm installed.

Something I'm not sure we've asked here: has the clutch ever worked properly? Is this a newly developed issue or one that's been there for a while?
 
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