Starter drive or bendix

The starter drive shown by JSeery is the one I switched to. I had the same problem of having the starter stall out after half a turn or so. With enough attempts, it would usually get past the hard part and spin the motor to start. Part of my problem was new rebuild being a little stiff, and bored, stroked with Offy 425 heads putting compression over 9 to 1. The starter would spin the motor like crazy with the plugs out. Try that to confirm that it is not a ring gear out of position, or some other mechanical binding.

I thought I had a good ground path, but to be sure I ran a ground cable directly from the negative terminal of the battery to under the head of a starter mounting bolt. That did the trick. It turns over every time now. A mere fraction of an Ohm anywhere in the starter lead or ground will really cut the voltage that the starter sees when cranking.
 
chap52...a slightly cocked ring gear would cause the starter drive to be inoperable...so I pulled the plugs in order to make it easier to turn the crank shaft nut with a wrench and the ring gear is flush against the flywheel........

I talked with the rebuilder of the starter and he is an auto electrical man for 45 years and he told me to run a ground cable direct from the battery to the block so i ran a 2 guage cable as he said and ....IT WORKED....the direct ground solved the starter problem.
His theory is that these very old car frames (82 yrs) tend to have resistance problems and a direct battery gound to engine block can be the saving grace and in this case it was.

With all this I still could not start the car but at least it would turn over enough to do so.
It is getting fuel so I am leaning more toward an electrical problem.
I will have to get a freind to turn the engine over while i check for spark and if it is getting enough spark I may have to get a professional mechanic to see why it won`t start.
I could not have gotten this far without everyones help, I THANK YOU.
 
Keep chipping away at it. You'll figure it out.
Was it starting before the starter was worked on?
Glad it wasn't that ring gear.
Chap
 
zoegrant said:
I talked with the rebuilder of the starter and he is an auto electrical man for 45 years and he told me to run a ground cable direct from the battery to the block so i ran a 2 guage cable as he said and ....IT WORKED....the direct ground solved the starter problem.
His theory is that these very old car frames (82 yrs) tend to have resistance problems and a direct battery gound to engine block can be the saving grace and in this case it was.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this contradict your early post that you connected a 12v battery directly to the starter and it still didn't turn over properly! Bad feedback leads to bad advice!!! :)
 
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OK...I had a helper so I checked for spark and we have spark at the coil and plugs....not sure where to go from here.....?
 
Zoegrant,
One of the great things about these old cars is that you usually don't need a professional mechanic with a computer to figure things out. I would encourage you to keep trouble shooting on your own.

Start by checking out the spark. Disconnect one of the plug wires and hold the metal end near (about 1/4") something metal on the engine, like a head bolt. With the ignition on and someone cranking, you should get a blue/white spark that will jump 1/2". If you get a weak spark, (yellow, jump only 1/4"), or no spark, then we need to dig a little further. If you get any spark, try some starting fluid in the intake just before you crank it. With any spark, that stuff will usually get it going. If it will keep running, let it warm up and then try to restart it. If it won't keep running, there may be a fuel problem.

Report back on those procedures and we can figure out the next step.
 
Chap52...the car has not been started in 9 years...

JSeery...I did hook the 12V battery directly to the starter and it did not turn over the engine any faster than the 6v...I dont understand what actually happened. Maybe a combo of rebuilding the starter plus the new style starter drive plus the new ground from battery to engine block was the magic combo to get it turn over faster ? It turns over faster but still does not start...I am going to get in touch with the carburetor rebuilder to see what he thinks....He is on this forum...
 
drolston...the spark was yellow and approx 1/4". I will try the starting fluid when my helper is available...
When my brother the owner of the car, had it at his house he pushed it and it would not start and I blamed it on the gas sitting in the tank 9 years. So we had it flat bedded to my house for me to work on. With fuel system and carb and distributor and starter rebuilt
it is hard to know where to go...but I will contact the carb guy to see what he thinks.
 
Flatheadmurre...I did try the gas down the carb route but maybe I did not put enough gas in there...Maybe I put two tablespoons in the carb, should I put more ?
Also, after pouring the gas in and then climbing into the car to start it maybe 15 seconds goes by before I can crank it over. I was using the gas down the carb thing sparingly as I was concerned about diluting the oil. Maybe I should use more gas ??
 
Before you go much further, put a fuel filter just before the fuel pump. Likely a lot of crud in the tank. And again, you will have better luck using starting fluid instead of gas in the carb. The starting fluid will fire on even a weak spark. They have it at the parts store; it may say for diesel, but it will work on the gas engine.
 
Drolston.... When I installed a "new" fuel tank I did install a filter before the electric fuel priming pump...I will let you know what happens with the fuel starting fluid....thanks
 
If the car doesn´t fire on gas...back to fixing ignition or timing.
Just dump some gas (takes more then a couple of tablespoons) and crank.
If it doesn´t fire up and run for a short time you have other things to fix before the fuel.
 
A few years ago I put my engine back together and when it came time to start it it would turn over (12vt) and I had fuel. Still no start. I "finally" realized that sometime during the night a gremlin must have slipped into my garage and put the timing and cam gear 180 degrees out. It had to be a gremlin because I know I triple checked that alignment. Anyway, I pulled the front cover and corrected the alignment and it started right up. Darn Gremlins...Chap
 
zoegrant said:
4T8V8...good thought on the bracket but I did have it installed when I put the starter back on....
On one of my post (#7) I stated that I took measurements to insure that the starter drive gear has enough room to engage properly with the flywheel and it does but what if this new type of starter gear does not have the same tooth pattern as the old one, causing the gear to bind up when meshing with the flywheel ?
WERE THERE DIFFERENT FLYWHEELS USED ON A FLATHEAD ?
The car is a 36 and the engine is 47-48. Could the previous owner have used the old 36 flywheel on this 47-48 engine and the tooth count or pattern is different causing the bind up with this new type of starter drive whereas it worked with the old type of starter drive ?
Click to expand...

The 36 flywheel will work fine on the 59A engine. But can't interchange between the early engines and the later 49-53. Try another starter with the original type Bendix is what I'd do
 
Middle of the night thought. You have spark, disconnect the fuel line at the carb and place the end in a can or jar, crank ans see if fuel squirts into the container. I OK, may be the distributor is 180 degrees out. Maybe the last owner set it in wrong, wouldn't start, walked away. Lots of "maybe's" but yours would not be the first.
You can have decent compression, OK spark and fuel but if they are not in sync the engine will turn over and not start.
If you still have those plugs out get yourself a remote start switch or have a friend crank (bump) the engine while you plug the #1 spark plug hole (passenger front cylinder) and when you feel the "puff" you will be on compression stroke for that cylinder. Stop there and check the front pulley timing mark if there is one on your engine. It should be approaching the pointer attached to the block. If not and you have the front cover off you can see the marks on the crank and cam gears and they should be close to each other. Now remove the distributor and see which plug wire the rotor is pointing at. Is that the #1 or another plug wire.
Firing order is, 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2. Cylinders 1-2-3-4- are passenger side front to rear, 5-6-7-8 are drivers side, front to rear. Crossing up plug wires is another common oops with these sweethearts. Don''s ask how I know!
OK Zoegrant, let's get this baby fired up. Don't get frustrated, we have all been there.
Enjoy the adventure and the learning experience

You don't show where your located, may be a "flatheader" on this forum nearby that can lend a hand.
 
zoegrant said:
drolston...the spark was yellow and approx 1/4". I will try the starting fluid when my helper is available...
When my brother the owner of the car, had it at his house he pushed it and it would not start and I blamed it on the gas sitting in the tank 9 years. So we had it flat bedded to my house for me to work on. With fuel system and carb and distributor and starter rebuilt
it is hard to know where to go...but I will contact the carb guy to see what he thinks.
Click to expand...

That is a problem right there, it should be blue.

Bob
 
Chap52...I will check to see if distributor is 180 out....it is possible as I put the helmet distributor back on myself after I had it rebuilt...I will keep you posted.
 
OK...we are making progress on getting my 36 started. The case was that the car sat for 9 years and I had a real difficult time trying to get the car to start. When trying to start the car the starter would bog down after approx 4 seconds and so it never had enough juice to start it. I did all the usual stuff including rebuilding the starter and cleaning and adding more grounds all to no avail.
It turned out to be a two part problem......car started today using a 12 volt battery....
The two main problems appear to be this....
1...due to corrosion the clutch plate was stuck to the flywheel causing the battery to bog down
2...the starter switch internally was a real mess with corrosion so it only made intermitant contact. I had used a 12v battery previously as suggested on these post but it wouldent turn over faster due to the starter switch only making a full contact now and then.
I had cleaned up the switch really good on the outside but never opened it up.

I am still having some clutch issues and am hoping that the corrosion will clean up as I drive it.
I will be putting the starter switch back in tomorrow as I have cleaned it up throughly and hopefully it will start with 6 volts.
Will post again to let everyone know what happened.
I still have a lot to do with this car to make it road worthy but getting it started is my first task.
Thanks to all who helped me with their suggestions.
 
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