Speed and Brakes?

Mikeinnj said:
Something else to consider.....

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions......From the NHTSA website
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All very true and they probably don't mention it because the average person can not understand it, but, by modulating the brake pedal under hard braking on DRY pavement, you can shorten the stopping distance at 30 mph by 5 feet over what the ABS would do.
 
Mikeinnj said:
Something else to consider.....

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances.
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Don't want to hijack the thread but a big advantage of ABS is they allow you to steer round the danger in the emergency with full braking rather than skidding onwards into it. BUT.... Do ABS ( or any good braking system) actually reduce accidents or is it that with modern brake systems everyone just drives faster and closer to the car in front ??? ( "Good brakes encourage bad driving")
 
Jim Brierley said:
Why did Ford, and all manufacturers go to hyd. brakes? Because they are better! Use of silicone fluid eliminates corrosion in the system and thus failure caused by rust.
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Part of why is the suspension changes vein made in the 30s -- going to independent suspension, lowering the body's and frames made it hard to route rods, and it became cheaper to have hydraulics
 
Kurt in NJ said:
Part of why is the suspension changes vein made in the 30s -- going to independent suspension, lowering the body's and frames made it hard to route rods, and it became cheaper to have hydraulics
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Ford used the same basic suspension set up through 1948
 
ABS assumes you are an inexperienced driver. Eg. Coming into a wet slippery corner you will hit the brakes and stay on the brakes.

Is that what you are going to do?

For me it took a fair bit of practice on a skid pan to let the Abs do its work. Yes it works but you have a split second to decide if you are going to trust your life to it and use it.
 
updraught said:
ABS assumes you are an inexperienced driver. Eg. Coming into a wet slippery corner you will hit the brakes and stay on the brakes.

Is that what you are going to do?

For me it took a fair bit of practice on a skid pan to let the Abs do its work. Yes it works but you have a split second to decide if you are going to trust your life to it and use it.
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I agree, and the couple times the ABS kicked in on my newer car I didn't like it. I'd rather do my own braking.
 
1929 said:
Question: Iam sure that there are many here who have the speed in their As, and do keep up with modern cars in todays world of no respect on the road where most modern car motorists think going 70 is too slow, Isnt it better and safer for the Model A guy that has more speed and drives his car more often to convert to the juice?
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OMG...the juice question :eek::eek::eek::eek::rolleyes: ! The juice is loose !!
Ok , so you asked for IT. I'm going to get some suds and pop corn ..hold up a minute.
Go ahead boys, let him have it :)
Hm, late to the party

BTW have you checked back/past threads ? Better bring a lunch.

Yeah, I did a silly thing myself, and put sillycone fluid in my Lincoln brake system. Must have done something wrong though, as I do not drive it very often and it still won't leak.
 
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Kevin in NJ said:
Let us go back to basics.

The Model A was designed to run 60 MPH. It was known to stop well and handle well on the crappy roads of the day at those speeds.

The major limits on the brakes for the Model A are the tires and their limited contact patch. Well done mechanical brakes can lock up fine at any time. So they are up to doing the job bearing in mind the tires have limits.

The major issue with a conversion to juice is safety. The mechanical brakes are just safer cause they just keep working. Juice brakes mess up too often on cars that are not driven enough. Just start asking questions at the car shows to the guys with juice brakes on any year or make car. I did once, I determined it was would be best to keep all the other cars in front of me cause too many really did not have brakes.

Keep in mind my family owned a 39 Ford and the brakes were always not working right (well mostly every other year). My Mustang gets messed up too, in fact I am going to be taking apart the brakes soon to fix the messed up wheel cylinders cause I like 100% braking. Too many will drive knowing one or more wheels are not functioning.
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Patrick L. said:
Again, it appears some don't read all the posts. As Kevin mentioned, our limiting factor are the tires.
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The original post had to do with the method of stopping the wheels from turning, not tires. But you guys are correct, tire size, composition, age, etc. all play a part in the stopping of the vehicle.

Hey look juice brake guys, nobody I'm not attacking your choice of brakes, but if you think they can stop a wheel better then mechanical I don't see it.

As for the argument "they changed because it's better" why was there such a time gap between electric cars, one coil per spark plug, hybrid engine & motor vehicles, even things like magnetic transmissions, and the list goes on.
 
Kevin in NJ said:
Let us go back to basics.

The Model A was designed to run 60 MPH. It was known to stop well and handle well on the crappy roads of the day at those speeds.

The major limits on the brakes for the Model A are the tires and their limited contact patch. Well done mechanical brakes can lock up fine at any time. So they are up to doing the job bearing in mind the tires have limits.

The major issue with a conversion to juice is safety. The mechanical brakes are just safer cause they just keep working. Juice brakes mess up too often on cars that are not driven enough. Just start asking questions at the car shows to the guys with juice brakes on any year or make car. I did once, I determined it was would be best to keep all the other cars in front of me cause too many really did not have brakes.

Keep in mind my family owned a 39 Ford and the brakes were always not working right (well mostly every other year). My Mustang gets messed up too, in fact I am going to be taking apart the brakes soon to fix the messed up wheel cylinders cause I like 100% braking. Too many will drive knowing one or more wheels are not functioning.
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I really like the mechanical brakes the car can sit for 10 years and the brakes will still work perfectly and if they are installed and adjusted correctly there is not any benefit to converting to juice.
 
The juice brake advantage is equalized braking pressure on each wheel. Where as with mechaical the service rods need to be carefully adjusted. Both systems will stop the same with a good leverage design. Stopping power is based on tire traction and brake unit friction.
 
Jon W said:
What is missing in this discussion is a recognition of the change in performance of cars as they have developed from the days when the Model A was new.

The Model A was likely very safe on the highways and in the traffic of its time because it had performance similar to all other cars. But today 85 years later if fails to come close to the performance of the cars currently on the highways. So driving it on the same roads and at the same speeds of the cars of today is dangerous because it cannot accelerate, stop or handle the turns as well so it is never going to blend in.

It certainly won't keep up with interstate traffic. In traffic on secondary roads it won't stop anywhere near as fast as the car in front can, so leaving a lot of space is required, and we all know other drivers will quickly fill in your safe stopping distance.

If you want to blend with today's cars you need a lot more than a different tire or juice brakes. You have to have braking ability to match today's disc brakes, tire compounds, and tire size. But then you wouldn't have a Model A.[/

Very, very logical. Wayne
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I am surprised that no-one mentioned a big advantage of hydraulic brakes - leverage. By careful sizing of master cylinder(s) and wheel cylinders the optimum pressure can be exerted on the brake shoes without making components too big to fit in the vehicle (and you do not need power brakes in a well designed set up).
 
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Took over a year but my mechanical brakes are done CORRECTLY and work GREAT. Just putting on shoes and worn steel drums does not cut it. We rebuilt mine from the backing plates all the way out to new Cast Iron Drums. This is a LOT of detailed work. Tracks built back up... new springs, pins levers the list goes on and on! Once done and all the slop from worn parts, sloppy pins and bent rods corrected.. I now have terrific brakes.
 
Fact; two barn finds sitting since WWII a 1933 Ford and a 1933 Plymouth.
Question which one will stop? The winner- the Ford. Last year we bought a
1949 F8 not run for 25 yrs got the bad 337 running and got brakes cause they
are air brakes. If you live around here, those idiots salt roads while its raining
that means hydraulic brake lines and I'm talking about newer cars and trucks,
of which we have a barrel full of rotted brake lines not to mention hyd. rubber
lines that swell. Now the dumb and dumber: The stupid wound spring wrapped
around brake lines "that's where they rust and blow". Air brake license endorsement?
should be hydraulic brake endorsement! And then the stupidest system on the
planet with the 'Girling system' on medium trucks. Thats a $1000 just to diagnose
the problem. Then everybody loves disc brakes (we love em too) because the idiots
see a big puddle slam the brakes, go through the the cold puddle "their goes the
rotors" so our cash register is ringing...............
 
Lost my brakes SUDDENLY on my 1998 Dodge Dakota driven daily. Brake line rusted out above the axle where it is difficult to see. I once lost my brakes suddenly on a 1966 IH pickup with about 75k on it when the master cylinder blew.

This is NOT a comment on mechanical brakes, rather a comment that juice brakes aren't perfect,

and my comment on the ABS crap (for untrained drivers) is not allowed on this forum ...

Ted
 
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