Zinc additive made my flattie smoke

gearhead1952

gearhead1952

Well-known member
I could not remember what brand of oil I had put in my 50 8ba, I knew it was straight 30 weight, so thought that I would just put in a bottle of zinc replacement figured it would be added insurance. The stuff was pricey at $15 looked clear and said it contained no zinc. Says to add whole bottle to 4-6 quarts of oil. Once done the engine now became a smoker, blue smoke out the exhaust under load or when you got on it. This is a good running motor with unknown miles and good 30+ oil pressure. Before this only had a very slight hint of blue in the exhaust when under a strong load. The smoke did not get better or worse but I didn't care for it. So drained it and put in a fresh batch of 30w and it is back to its old self. Just thought I would pass this on in case others decide to try the stuff.
 
Would be nice to know what (brand) of zinc replacement (that has no zinc) you are talking about. I, as many others have used ZDDP with no smoking problems:)
 
The amount of material in that bottle that would have been the actual ZDDP would be very small, the rest would be a carrier agent, typically a light mineral oil or sometimes a solvent or a mixture of the two. Since you mentioned you had "very slight hint" of smoke before, it's possible the carrier material was low enough viscosity it got by rings or guides (whatever is contributing to the slight hint) more easily than the SAE 30 product you normally run.
 
Uncle Bob said:
The amount of material in that bottle that would have been the actual ZDDP would be very small, the rest would be a carrier agent, typically a light mineral oil or sometimes a solvent or a mixture of the two. Since you mentioned you had "very slight hint" of smoke before, it's possible the carrier material was low enough viscosity it got by rings or guides (whatever is contributing to the slight hint) more easily than the SAE 30 product you normally run.
Click to expand...


Hmm maybe so. I went and dug it out of the trash. Hyper Lube Zinc Replacement Additive, they had a website listed and is shown on the front page: hyperlube.com
 
I should add I have a pcv valve in this engine where the road draft tube was but I did not disconnect it to see if the blue smoke was due to vapors being sucked in the engine versus rings or valve leakage.
 
Sometimes the way a product is labeled requires the skill of parsing a lawyers statement (e.g. "I did not have sex..........;))

In this case "zinc replacement" may be the key phrasing. Ever since this zinc thing "blew up" a few years ago (it's actually the phosphorous component of the ZDDP compound that's the "problem") I've been watching this work out. I occasionally see references to different chemistries to replace the anti-wear properties of ZDDP, but haven't found anything specific as to a compound, additive package, or supplier/vendor. In the "old days" when I was in the business I could just make a phone call to someone I knew at places like Lubrizol, but no longer have that option. This may be one of those kinds of products that have demonstrated some level of anti-wear protection that is neither zinc nor phosphorous based.
 
Uncle Bob said:
Sometimes the way a product is labeled requires the skill of parsing a lawyers statement (e.g. "I did not have sex..........;))

In this case "zinc replacement" may be the key phrasing. Ever since this zinc thing "blew up" a few years ago (it's actually the phosphorous component of the ZDDP compound that's the "problem") I've been watching this work out. I occasionally see references to different chemistries to replace the anti-wear properties of ZDDP, but haven't found anything specific as to a compound, additive package, or supplier/vendor. In the "old days" when I was in the business I could just make a phone call to someone I knew at places like Lubrizol, but no longer have that option. This may be one of those kinds of products that have demonstrated some level of anti-wear protection that is neither zinc nor phosphorous based.
Click to expand...

:)... or no protection at all. I was thinking how could someone prove this product did or did not do its job? Does snake oil burn blue? :D
 
Okay, did a little research on the link you posted and a couple levels deeper on Google. It claims a copolymer ester content, which is basically a synthetic oil. I found on MSDS from hyperlube for a similar product but not the exact product name. It was a blend of "regular" hydrotreated oil, plus the synthetic and a few minor other additives. Many oil providers claim anti-wear capabilities for synthetic oils over "regular" petroleum oils, so that's probably what they're hanging their hat on.

As for the smoking, pure polyol esters wouldn't normally smoke, but if it is mixed with the hydrotreated petroleum stock that could (emphasis) be the cause.
 
Go to the Gibbs oil site, not that I endorse the brand but they do explain that certain mixtures can clash leaving you in real trouble, I think that may be the case.
 
I agree with the perspective, you just lowered the viscosity of the 30W when you introduced the additive. Hence, what level of oil burning you have was just increased. Put 20W in it and it'll smoke again, big time.
 
I agree with Uncle Bob. The word "replacement" can be used to mean an Additive or a Substitute for Zinc.

They should label this stuff as a Zinc Substitute to avoid confusion.
 
gearhead1952 said:
I did chuckle in the store when I saw that part. I figured the zinc was taken out for a reason and somebody smarter than me had come up with a better fix.
Click to expand...
I really dont get this,you went to buy zinc additive,found a bottle that had no zinc,read the lable in the store that it had no zinc,went ahead and bought it anyway...why? if you wanted zinc why would you buy a product you knew had no zinc???:confused:Thats like wanting to change my oil, going to the store and picking up milk,knowing its not oil and then putting it in my engine and then wondering why my ride is screwed up.By the way i use zddp in my flathead and never had a problem
 
I spent some time on the Gibbs site earlier today as well. Some very good info there, but they also bring a point of view to the issues at hand. The one item that most stood out, other than the minor built in bias toward their product formulation decisions, was the discussion about ZDDP ratio to detergent/dispersant. First it's expressed in percenatages on the pie chart so without knowing what the original volumes are it's hard to know whether the zinc actual amount in both oils is the same and it's the ratio of det/dis that's changed. The way they do the pie chart implies they put in more zinc........good marketing as we in the U.S. often live by a "more is better' mentality, but not necessarily accurate. The philosophy of less det/dis works fine in a race engine as it generally runs at full operating temperature almost full time, only at lower temps at start up. In a street driven car you go through lots of thermal cycles which contributes to condensation and higher levels of unburned/partially burned fuel, both of which increase the formation of acids in the oil. A higher level of det/dis is called "over basing" meaning more basic pH material to neutralize acids that may form.

From their stated point of view, race conditions are considered "severe service", however, engineers of street driven vehicles consider stop and go, short trip driving to be "severe service". Neither is wrong, just different operating conditions and perspectives. These are somewhat negligable points of contention since we hobby types mostly tend to change oil more frequently than absolutely necessary, but without clarification folks might carry over inappropriate interpretations to their daily drivers.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top