Why Ford HURD locks are so secure

L

LockDoc

Junior Member
I have read quite a few posts on here with questions about picking and removing Ford lock cylinders. I will not go into detail on how to pick locks here but I wanted to give a little insight into why the HURD locks are so secure. HURD locks are what is known as a pin tumbler lock. There are five pin chambers in each lock and there are two pins in each chamber, plus a spring. The key raises each pin set to a pre-determined height and when this happens the cylinder will turn. When the HURD locks were first introduced on automobiles the pins were all smooth, this made it possible for a person who knew exactly how the locks worked to pick and open the locks. A very simple but effective solution to this problem was to modify the pins to prevent picking. Four different styles of pins were introduced, spool pins, grooved pins, ringed pins, and mushroom pins. If you will notice in the picture each one has it's own configuration. When a person tried to pick a lock with one or more of these pins in the pin chambers the pin could be pushed up to the indentation and the lock cylinder would then turn a small amount. When this happened the pin could not be pushed up any further and the lock cylinder could not turn any further, thus foiling the picking attempt. I will not say that the HURD locks absolutely can not be picked but I can tell you that I have been working on these locks since 1977 and I can count on two hands the number of HURD lock cylinders I have actually been able to pick. Once in a while everyone gets lucky. 32phil has verified this many times in his posts on the board.

I have seen posts on here where some of the guys have dismantled the lock cylinders and made keys for them and this is a viable solution if you don't have a problem working with 15 very small pins and springs plus getting the pin chambers sealed back up so they don't pop back off at the most inopportune time. Luckily most of the HURD lock cylinders have the code numbers stamped on them and that makes it easy to get keys made.

I have seen a few posts that state "just take it to a locksmith and they can pick it". When I see that statement I have to chuckle.... Not only will 98% of the locksmiths today not be able to do that, half of the other 2% won't even want to mess with it because of the time involved.

Sorry about the long winded post but I hope it will give you guys & gals a little insight into why these locks are so secure, and can be a little tough to work on.

LockDoc
 

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The key is broken off in the lock in my 47 truck.

When I had the steering column out to work on the steering box, I took the lock to a local locksmith. He tried off and on for a few days to get that broken key out before giving up.

So I put it all back together, stuck key and all.

Is there any way to deal with that stuck key?

Tom
 
Leon, thank you for the informative post! Good reading. I never knew there were two pins to each chamber. I am one who posted they wanted to try repining one of these Hurd cylinders just to see if I could do it, but I don't know the best method of removing those little disks at the top of each chamber. Probably a trade secret ;)

ps...congratulations on learning to post a picture on your 9th post! :)
 
Last edited:
LockDoc said:
I have seen a few posts that state "just take it to a locksmith and they can pick it". When I see that statement I have to chuckle.... Not only will 98% of the locksmiths today not be able to do that, half of the other 2% won't even want to mess with it because of the time involved.
Click to expand...

I had a door lock key (same as ignition) made by a local locksmith. He unhesitatingly made it by patiently inserting a blank, withdrawing it, carefully filing it, reinserting it, filing, etc., etc. Guess he was an exception.
 
Keys are no problem for a Hurd lock if you have the code book. These cyl have a code number stamped on the side that tells a locksmith what setup he needs on his key cutter.
 
The Hurds are also very precisely cut...I have probably a couple of dozen Hurd cylinders with keys around, many more with no keys, and a lot of loose keys found without locks...
NEVER have I gotten a cylinder to work by trying it with all my available keys, and I have repeatedly demonstrated that they are far beyond my modest picking ability.
With GM cars from the '30's through 1980's at least, once they have had a few years of use trying a couple of random keys will generally get them right open, and some get so sloppy that almost anything that will fit the hole will turn them.
Long ago I had an ignition key from a Hillman minx...and found that it would work in EVERY English car I tried it in!
 
47COE said:
The key is broken off in the lock in my 47 truck.

When I had the steering column out to work on the steering box, I took the lock to a local locksmith. He tried off and on for a few days to get that broken key out before giving up.

So I put it all back together, stuck key and all.

Is there any way to deal with that stuck key?

Tom
Click to expand...
Buy you the smallest brim hook, straighten it out, insert it down by the key and twist 90 degree and pull out the key. Be sure you have the key turned in the correct position. Charles
 
Thanks everyone.

47COE said:
The key is broken off in the lock in my 47 truck.

When I had the steering column out to work on the steering box, I took the lock to a local locksmith. He tried off and on for a few days to get that broken key out before giving up.

So I put it all back together, stuck key and all.

Is there any way to deal with that stuck key?

Tom
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

One way is to get a short section of an old coping saw blade and grind off all of the teeth except one or two. Use this to try and work the broken key out. Be sure and spray some penetrating oil in it first. Charles had another good post below using a fish hook. What Charles said about making sure the lock plug is turned to the correct position is very important. The key will not come out if it isn't in the right position.
JM 35 Sedan said:
Leon, thank you for the informative post! Good reading. I never knew there were two pins to each chamber. I am one who posted they wanted to try repining one of these Hurd cylinders just to see if I could do it, but I don't know the best method of removing those little disks at the top of each chamber. Probably a trade secret ;)

ps...congratulations on learning to post a picture on your 9th post! :)
Click to expand...

John,

Removing the chamber plugs can be a little tricky. They are actually made of a Zinc alloy and some will crumble when you try to remove them. If you take a fairly stiff tool (I have used an ice pick but that is a little overkill, OK, a lot overkill) and press on one side of the plug/disk it will rotate enough that you can grab it with some tweezers and pull it out. If you push too hard and jamb it down into the pin chamber you can destroy the spring. If you have an old beat up cylinder don't be afraid to try it. If you ruin any of the springs I can send you a couple. PM me if you try it and have any questions.

4dFord/SC said:
I had a door lock key (same as ignition) made by a local locksmith. He unhesitatingly made it by patiently inserting a blank, withdrawing it, carefully filing it, reinserting it, filing, etc., etc. Guess he was an exception.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is called "impressioning" or making a key by the "impression" method. Some of the old timers used that method to make keys when no code number was available. When you insert the key you have to turn it to put pressure on it and wiggle the key up and down. It does not work for lock cylinders with the type of pins in them as pictured above. It can also be time consuming.

jimTN said:
Keys are no problem for a Hurd lock if you have the code book. These cyl have a code number stamped on the side that tells a locksmith what setup he needs on his key cutter.
Click to expand...

That is very true Jim, as I stated above. If you work on a lot of locks sooner or later you will run into some that don't have a code number (hubcap lock cylinders come to mind here) or at some point in time a locksmith has re-pinned one and didn't re-stamp the cylinder with the new code number. Then it's a whole new ballgame.

Bruce Lancaster said:
The Hurds are also very precisely cut...I have probably a couple of dozen Hurd cylinders with keys around, many more with no keys, and a lot of loose keys found without locks...
NEVER have I gotten a cylinder to work by trying it with all my available keys, and I have repeatedly demonstrated that they are far beyond my modest picking ability.
With GM cars from the '30's through 1980's at least, once they have had a few years of use trying a couple of random keys will generally get them right open, and some get so sloppy that almost anything that will fit the hole will turn them.
Long ago I had an ignition key from a Hillman minx...and found that it would work in EVERY English car I tried it in!
Click to expand...

Bruce,

Years ago I used try some of my old keys on locks with no code numbers (I have hundreds of them) but found it fruitless so I gave up on that early on.

If the GM sidebar locks are new, or used but in good shape they are almost impossible to pick also. If they are well worn, like you say, they are very easily compromised.
charles in east texas said:
Buy you the smallest brim hook, straighten it out, insert it down by the key and twist 90 degree and pull out the key. Be sure you have the key turned in the correct position. Charles
Click to expand...


Charles,

I have used that very method to extract broken keys and it can work very well. The point about having the cylinder plug turned to the correct position is an important one for sure.


LockDoc
 
Like Lock doc says, the key in the locked position is essential before extraction. If you can determine it is, you can coax the key blade from the back using a flat driver (the size of teeth portion of the key). Gently tap until enough of the broken key extends out the front to grip with needle-nosed pliers and pull it out. If it is determined to be in the un-locked position (which assumes it is the correct key), it can be coaxed to turn the cylinder to the locked position so that the above method can be attempted. Good luck.
Regards,
FlatHeadCoupe
 
Welcome Leon...
I concur with Leons comments. The only place I differ is where he states he gets a chuckle out of the comment.... take it to a local locksmith and he can pick it.
I am usually rolling around on the floor Laughing My A_ _ Off... when I read that.

(P.S. No offense intended to those who have made the comment.)
 
32phil said:
Welcome Leon...
I concur with Leons comments. The only place I differ is where he states he gets a chuckle out of the comment.... take it to a local locksmith and he can pick it.
I am usually rolling around on the floor Laughing My A_ _ Off... when I read that.

(P.S. No offense intended to those who have made the comment.)
Click to expand...


Thanks Phil. I have enjoyed reading your posts on here. If you ever have any questions on anything lock related or lock cylinders you need help identifying or anything of that nature don't hesitate to PM me and I will see if I can help. Same goes for anyone else on the board...

LockDoc
 
I'll bet that the key couldn't be extracted because the lock is in the wrong position as you suggested. I hadn't thought about that, and perhaps the locksmith didn't either.

The cylinder was probably sticking back when the key broke off in the lock. It was that way when I got the truck in 1974. It is most certainly good and stuck now.

Since I've lived with for so long, I guess a few more decades like that won't be a problem.

Tom
 
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