Which V8 for my car ?

C

ceejay

Senior Member
I all, I have a 33 Phaeton which needs a replacement engine.

I have an opportunity to buy a good 35 engine.

I take it, they went into insert main bearings in 36 ?

Is there anything to say that an insert bearing engine would be better than a poured bearing engine ?

I would like to keep to something which looks period correct externally.. as in with the water pumps in the head etc.

What do you guys think ?

Are the 4 cylinder model "B" and the V8 transmissions and rear axles the same ?
 
It's my understanding that the 4 cylinder trans
Is not the same and the torque tube is longer on the
4 cylinder model.
 
since my car has a 4 cylinder drive line, I would need V8 engine, transmission, torque tube and rear axle ?
 
My '33 pickup was originally a 4 cylinder and previous owners installed a V8 with a '36 block and '37 ******. Still looks period correct to the untrained eyes and everything still "original". A good running '35 block should be fine.
 
^^^ Actually the other way around, the V8 torque tube is longer than the four. The tabs on the gearbox mount point backwards on the V8 and point forwards on the four. Having the tabs to the rear moves the gearbox forward on the V8 hence the longer torque tube on the V8.

You may be able to retain the axle, but the torque tube and driveshaft will need to be changed.

The guts of the 4 cylinder box may be the same as the V8, but the cases are different. The internals can be built into either case.

Mart.
 
Only if they are poured by someone who doesn't know his @$$. Post some questions on the Model A side of this site and there are a dozen machinists who can help you out. Poured babbitt is a lost art, but can still be done and also be very reliable.
 
ceejay said:
since my car has a 4 cylinder drive line, I would need V8 engine, transmission, torque tube and rear axle ?
Click to expand...
I am going to give you some advice from a '32 guy (which means you should take it with a grain of salt). I assume you are going from a 4 cyl to a V8.
1."Transmission" should have said "transmission case" as the gears can be used.
2. Radiator
3. The radiator support rods may be a different length (they are on a '32)
4. Engine steady (anti-chatter) rods (I assume are different)
5. Hubcaps/emblems
6. Accelerator linkage
7. Choke and throttle linkage
8. Engine splash pans
9. Gas line routing
10. Serial number (whoops, that is the VIN and can't be changed)
11. On a '32 the increase in value is about equal to the cost of doing the conversion. I kind of like the 4 cyl.
12. One final note, the insert bearings started in late 1935 and were produced at the same time the babbit bearings were being used.

Charlie Stephens
 
Poured Babbitt bearings are very reliable. I sold Babbitt repair service for years and if done correctly, there is no problem. The only problem is to keep the oil clean. In the big power generating stations and power generating dams, the big bearings ( some are 54 inch) are all Babbitt. The downside to getting Babbitt poured is the quality of the person doing the job. It's an art to do it correctly. Not all shops are quality Babbitt rebuilders. The company I represented does not do engines, only high volume or large bearings. Research the company you are considering having the work done by and talk to their customers they have poured for.
 
CEEJAY, depending on your intended use of the car, there are several different ways to go. If you plan on lots of cross country driving, an insert bearing V8 would be best. Moderate highway and considerable in-town driving would indicate an original 4 cylinder engine, and very little driving at all would show a babbitt bearing engine to be a good choice.

Not a lot of people know that the 4 cylinder engine was more reliable, stronger, and an all around better engine than were the early V8s. If you still have your original block, it would be a good choice to have it rebuilt and run the wheels off your car with it. Your investment in time, energy, and money would be considerably less, and the originality of your car would be preserved, converting to a good selling price when the time comes.

A babbit bearing engine would appear original to the untrained eye, but wouldn't fool the experts. Good luck in finding an engine builder capable of dealing with poured bearings. Expect fewer total miles from a babbitt engine before fresh bearings are needed.

An LB engine would be an excellent choice, but as LBs are scarce, and the conversion wouldn't be Concourse correct anyway, the 21 stud '37 and '38 engines also have insert bearings, are easier to find and of course cheaper. The water pump heads work here, as well as all the other bolt-ons. You would definitely want to use a Stromberg carburetor, and everything would look original to the untrained eye.
 
Lots of good experienced advice above. One thing to consider is that a 4cyl 33 is a odd duck in itself, a VERY rare vehicle, even more so as it is a phaeton. If you go the 4cyl route, a Columbia on top of a 4:11 gear would be a very good combination for all around driving.
 
Alan,

In what way would "a babbit bearing engine appear original to the untrained eye, but wouldn't fool the experts"? Huh? All '33s were originally manufactured with built babbit main bearings. Did you mean instead that the "experts" would know the difference between a '35 block and '33-'34 block? Perhaps your fingers slipped on the keyboard.
 
I have a 37 engine in my 36 woodie. I like the inserts and don't have to worry about whether a babbit job was good or not. I replaced the rod bearings and they are standard. I don't show the engine to anyone who could tell the difference. I have the water pumps as motor mounts as they cool better.
 
Dunno what's happening here, this will make my third try to reply to David. Here goes:

David, here I go messing in your area of expertise again. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My meaning was twofold. First, the '35 block would have a crank case vent, easily identifiable. Second, even if all the correct V8 items were present, there would still be the issue of the serial number. My advise regarding the use of a Stromberg simply acknowledges the better choice over the Lubricator, particularly since the whole installation would be incorrect anyway. The later 21 stud from '37-'38 would be the superior engine in my opinion, while still appearing correct to those not familiar with the block off plate. Of course, an LB would be best, but are pretty hard to find.

I knew the Seahalks would win! :D
 
I have a 33 2 door sedan with a 1935 v8 - no one ever noticed that it isn't a '33 block. It used to have a '37 block but I didn't like the look of the block off plates.
I think if I had that phaeton with a 4 cly. I'd want to rebuild it and have an unusual engine to go with the unusual car.
Brendan - thanks for the picture - what a great truck!!
 
There are excellent original appearing high compression heads (Sacremento Vintage Ford)and first class high lift cams(Stipe) available for the 4cyl and are not all that expensive.
 
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