Wheel disc loss with radials

B

Bruce Compton Canada

Senior Member
I've just installed radials on my stock '54 Merc wheels and the "buzz" is that I'll be throwing off the wheel discs. I really don't want to lose any of my excellent original discs, so is there a quick fix or will I need later wheels designed for radial tires? It's still snowing up here so I hav'nt tried the car yet and should have time to solve the potential problem before spring arrives. Tanks : Bruce
 
Bruce Compton said:
I've just installed radials on my stock '54 Merc wheels and the "buzz" is that I'll be throwing off the wheel discs. I really don't want to lose any of my excellent original discs, so is there a quick fix or will I need later wheels designed for radial tires? It's still snowing up here so I hav'nt tried the car yet and should have time to solve the potential problem before spring arrives. Tanks : Bruce
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Wheels were not designed differently for radials, the tires just evolved from bias and belted to radial. In fact, radials were offered as an option on some vehicles in the '60s/early '70s using the same wheels.
If the discs were run on the wheels before the tire change, you should not have a problem.
I installed radials on my '51 Ford along with new/repo '56 Olds covers, and did have a problem with them coming loose ONE time, out of my driveway. I simply r-bent the tabs on the covers, and have never had one come loose in 9 years.
I would install the discs and make slow tight turns, like in a parking lot, checking often for the discs coming loose, before getting up to speed on the road. :)
 
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I have a 56 Bird with original wheels (as far as I know) with radials and haven't had any problem with the full hubcaps. Drove the car from NJ to Oregon and back and never lost a one.
 
The reason why older wheels shod with radial tires throw wheel covers is because the radial tire grabs the road better, and in turn causes the wheel to flex more, and (literally) in turn the covers begin to rotate and "walk" off the rim. In the mid-'80s I was told that you can do a few more things to help hold the cover in place:
- Weld a small bead on the inside face of the rim at a point where the wheel cover "teeth" will hit it so that it won't rotate on the rim. Make sure the valve stem hole is positioned correctly first.
- Use metal valve stems - they won't bend (but I have had one shear off, though).
 
alt63bird said:
The reason why older wheels shod with radial tires throw wheel covers is because the radial tire grabs the road better, and in turn causes the wheel to flex more,
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Curious, but have you ever read or studied any factual evidence to support the above statement? :confused: Not theories, thoughts, guesses, etc. I haven't, and cannot understand how a radial tire can cause more "flex" than a bias or belted tire. :)
 
I use the metal valve stems that are bolted to the wheel found in trucks etc. The cover will rotate against the stem and stay put.
 
Well now! Another myth surfaces..
I have used radial tires on several '50 model vehicles since about 1966.. I switched to radials (700x15) on my '59 Ford F100 because I got tired of bias tires coming apart under load. I had such good luck with the F100 I switched my camper truck over to radials, (750x16 8 ply). In time I changed all of my vehicles over to radials..
I put radials on my '57 Bird in 1973, have driven the car over 75k during the years we have owned it.. My wife drove the car for daily transportation for over seven years.
The bird has full wheel covers, have never lost one yet. My '56 Bird also has radials with full wheel covers..
I have found that full wheel covers will "walk" on the rim over time, easy to stop the covers from cutting into the valve stem, keep an eye on the covers and/or put stem protectors on them.
I would guess that the reason why full wheel covers tend to come loose is because they were improperly installed, or that the tabs have been bent from removal/replacement..
It is true that full wheel covers can come off on very hard high speed turns, and/or rough roads, that is why police and race cars don't use them..
When I have tire work done I always check my wheels/caps to make sure they have been properly installed and seated.
 
I bought a V8 Ranger with 15 inch passenger steel wheels and radials. I lost one of my snap on spun aluminum discs hitting a snow bump. It wasn't much of a bump, I thought it was wheel flex, but it may have been a poor snap on wheel cover. Never did find it to examine.
 
I would think the problem would be more with the wheel cover than the tires. I recall mid 70's TBird wheel covers were terrible to put back on. Once you got them on right they stayed on. If not, the car might come back w/an irate customer. Seen em' pop off just cruisin' the parking lot. On the lighter side it was an endless source of laughter to see one of the guys walk in with wheel cover in his hands.
 
When the car manufactures went to plastic caps in the late '70, especially the GM cars, I never had a problem with the hub caps coming off, that is until I had tire/brake work done on my '78 El Camino. I usually threw a hub cap within miles of the tire/brake store. As a general rule the cap could not be recovered.... Freeway, etc.. When I was able to retrieve the thrown cap I would find one ore more of the plastic tabs broken off.. Of course a return to the shop produced very little satisfaction. A visit to the dealer to purchase new caps and emblems, at my expense was the result of careless removal/placement on the wheel.
After a few experiences with the loss of caps, I got smart.. Before I left the tire/brake shop I would go around the vehicle, inspecting the fit and how secure the caps were to the wheel. This inspection would usually result in the cap coming off in my hand, inspection of the cap would show broken tabs an the back of the cap.
Of course bringing this condition to the shop owner usually resulted in frustration on my part, because the usual response was that he did not make the "plastic junk", the manufacture did..
A review of my "avatar" will show that my '36 Ford has small hub caps, actually they were '46 Ford... I had full wheel covers, "flipper disks" on '41 wheels for many years. After having had them stolen many times, I gave up and went to the wrecking yard to buy hub caps and trim rings.. Never had another cap stolen since 1954
 
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I've seen countless car chase scenes in movies where hub caps fly off. It's always a front tire that loses one as the car rounds a corner at high speed. There's some obvious wheel flex occurring in these situations. I don't think it mattered what kind of tire was shod.
 
I also remember people drilling holes in the hub cap & wheel and securing them with allen screws. In Detroit it was done more for keeping them from being stolen so easy than from falling off.
 
I have found that a radial will have very few hub cap problems if the cap tabs are in good shape and the minimum tire pressure is 35 lbs.....John in CT
 
bruce i had that trouble my friends with 54lincoln 53 merc 51 ford mine a 52 merc we just put a small dab of urethane on the edge of cover no problems i put 4 dabs on mine im running 215x75x15 gtradials trev
 
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