What stops the fire?

Dog:cool:here, Yo, There's a gazillion uf them little electrical "men" in the fat cable at the starter, jist waitin' to wurk, only a few uf them can go in the little wire to do other wurk, cuz them other jobs are easy!!

I agree with you totally, Marco! With the above statement, the Dog:cool: tried to answer the original poster's question, in a "humerous" laymans manner. Bill W. (We're not building rockets, we just want our cars wired PROPERLY & working as they were when new.)
 
Hi Bill,,

Probably the counselor could have been married at one time & their ammeter measuring their marriage commitments did not travel in the right polarized direction -- appears to sadly happen often these days !!
 
The 00 tip I won on eBay arrived today, I'll get some gas welding in tomorrow on my door, think I'll stick with things I understand. Chances are fairly good the 6 volt I charged yesterday will be dead on Sunday. Thanks to all that tried. Bob
 
All Direct Current flows from negative to positive. Electrons are negatively charged and are attracted to the positive.
 
Amps. Voltage is one thing but amps is another.

The wire stands ready with voltage. If you put a 5 amp bulb ob it, all is good. You put a draw of 30 amps on it might melt.

Voltage is always there. Amps are a draw.
 
Turned out the engine on Dad's Roadster is seized, so there isn't a need to understand electricity for another year or so. Winter is almost here and I have my Roadster and Fordor bodies to work on, all is well. Bob
 
Refering to the fried yellow wire question, think of it like the starter is sucking up all the jigawatts that you would think would fry the yellow wire. But it doesn't because the current is being sucked away from the wire. Good luck next year with it because it is tricky sometimes. At least for me.
 
Here's a example that might help. Look at the images below. Which plow requires the most energy to pull? And which requires the biggest tractor hitch? Obviously the big plow, right?

Think of your Model A starter as the big plow. It needs a LOT of energy. The 20-blade plow is a huge load on the tractor compared to the single-blade plow. So it needs a huge hitch.

The fat battery cable on your Model A is like that big hitch. The yellow wire on your Model A is like the little hitch. Each hitch has it's load -- one large and one small.

The strain on each tractor hitch is like amps carried by a wire. Big plows require big hitches. Big electrical loads require big wires.

The yellow wire doesn't burn up because it has a small load. (Just the ignition.) But hook a starter to it and it would smoke.
 

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This was an interesting thread to read.

In every basic electricity / electronics class I have taught I have always been amazed how much time we would spend getting across the idea that electricity has potential (yes, like a pressurized pipe) and that it will flow from the highest potential (negative potential pole) to the lowest potential (positive potential pole) if a path is provided. In advanced electronics, when we start talking about semiconductors we introduce "hole flow". A Model A owner does not need to care about hole flow. (BTW, very nice analogy Mike V.)
So, in our positive grounded cars. (positive terminal connected to the chassis)

The starter in our cars use one wire and one wire only. It is the big honkin' wire that comes from the battery and goes the the switch on the top of the starter. When you push the starter button, electrons flow from the battery, through the big wire, through the now closed switch, through the starter windings and into the frame of the engine. From there they travel into the chassis of the vehicle and beck to the battery through the cable attached from the chassis to the other battery terminal.

The yellow wire has nothing to do with the starter circuit at all. If you disconnected the yellow wire the engine would still turn over, it just would not start.

The yellow wire, as has been pointed out, supplies power to the rest of the car, including ignition, lights, horn and the generator.

The ignition, lights and horn will all complete their electrical path by using the chassis of the car to let the electron get back to the grounded side of the battery. So, when you push the horn button the electrons will flow through the big honkin' starter wire just to get to the yellow wire, through the horn switch, though the windings of the motor in the horn and then to the chassis back to the battery.

And that leaves us with the generator. But wait! It doesn't "use power", it makes it. :eek: We don't want electrons flowing from the battery through the generator and then to ground. We want the generator to put electrons back into our battery. Is it pushing the electrons against the flow you ask? (come on.... ask... you know you want to. :D )

Well... no... and yes. It depends on the point of view.

This is where it gets tricky...

Electrical potential always wants to equalize. So....our battery wants to get its extra electrons on the negative pole over to the positive pole where there is a lack of electrons. If you lay a wrench across the terminals (not recommended unless you like heat, smoke, fire and possible explosion) the electrons will scurry over to the positive side until there is the same amount on both sides. The potential energy has been equalized and your battery is dead. (or in other parts of the world your battery is flat) In any circuit where there is a difference in potential, electrons will flow in the direction needed to equalize.

So, if the generator, when it is not running, where just hooked directly to the battery it would behave like a motor. That is why we have the cutout relay in there, to prevent electrons from flowing through the generator like a motor.

But, when running, from the point of view of the generator, its output post has lots of electrons and is the negative side of the circuit and the negative post on the battery is the positive because the generator has more electrons than the battery. (assuming the generator is functioning properly and is adjusted with a voltage higher than the battery) So, electrons are still flowing from the highest potential (negative post of the generator) to the lowest potential (negative post of the battery) and the circuit is complete from the positive post of the battery through the frame to the frame of the generator.

So, it isn't really pushing electrons against the flow. It is a completely different flow that just happens to be using the same wire.

Well, there's the bell. Give this AMPle time to sink in and it won't seem so reVOLTing. And remember - resistance is futile if less than 0.01 ohms. :cool:
 
I read all the replies, they all make sence for a while then I get lost. Back to that yellow wire that runs everything except the starter. It looks like the same size wire as those that run the lights and everything else on an A. Huge cable comes from the battery to starter, and the yellow wire is attached to it, if EVERY wire that runs a light or other fixture were held in a bunch that total size would be about half the size of the battery cable. Sort of an hour glass picture as I see it. Unknown total of jigawats needed to run all the lights at one time, all run through the yellow wire without it smoking. Why? Bob
 
Unknown total of jigawats needed to run all the lights at one time, all run through the yellow wire without it smoking. Why?
It's not jigawatts, that's why. It's 4 watts.

Assume: 20 amps for everything
Assume: 0.2 volts drop across the entire length of the yellow wire

Watts = volts times amps
0.2v times 20a = 4w dissipated by the wire alone

Compare that 4 watts to a 100w light bulb. Pretty small, huh? No smoke.
 
Since the power for the horn and lights comes right at the cutout, when the generator is charging, then none of the power for the lights comes through the yellow wire off the starter.

When the generator isn't charging, then the lights power comes through the yellow wire, which as mentioned is heavy enough to carry the load.
 
The starter motor circuit and the other circuits in the car are parallel circuits each drawing current separately from the battery and each switched separately. When the starter switch is closed the starter draws in the neighborhood of 100 amps from the battery. That is why there has to be heavy battery cables to handle the heavy current. The yellow wire provides current to the other devices on the car when their separate switches are closed. The amount of current drawn is less than 30 amps that is why a smaller gauge wire can be used.

Tom Endy
 
It really doesn't matter, and you didn't mention pushed or pulled from which battery terminal.:confused: All you have to know is that the current flows when it has a complete path from one terminal to the other, and when it flows it can be converted to do work, either as light, heat, or torque, as in turning the stater armature.

You want to be even more confused......... ask someone if the vacuum cleaner sucks up dirt.:D
It really doesn't. The dirt is being pushed into the bag by air pressure.:D

Yeah! That's it! A team of oxen does not pull a cart. They are pushing the yoke.
 
P.S and REdington, may be correct I just don't know which one is. Bob

It makes no difference which way electricity flows it just has to flow. You need a completed circuit for the electrons don't drive your self crazy worrying ( + to -) or (- to + ) it just don't mater.
 
I feel that some take "pride" in saying, "I'M ELECTRICALLY CHALLENGED", or "I DON'T UNDERSTAND ELECTRICAL STUFF"
PSHAW! Just dig out your old 1957 ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITTANICA & read about some basic electrical stuff. Study a Model A wiring diagram & follow each circuit. It's EASY & SIMPLE. The Dog:cool: just mentioned that excluding the lights, there's only about 7 wires in the whole system!:D
If you say, "I CAN'T,:eek: I CAN'T,:eek: I CAN'T,:eek: I CAN'T",:eek: enough times, then by dang, you CAIN'T:eek:
If you say, "I'M A DOG, I'M A DOG, I'M A DOG, I'M A DOG", pretty soon, you'll be SCRATCHIN'!!
Bill W.
 
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It makes no difference which way electricity flows it just has to flow. You need a completed circuit for the electrons don't drive your self crazy worrying ( + to -) or (- to + ) it just don't mater.

So true, pick one and use it when troubleshooting. I use + to - for electronics since the symbols are written for that direction.
 
You need to not worry and just believe. Somewhere it is written that faith can move mountains. 6 Volts + ground can move a Model A.
 
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