What exactly is my Model A?
- Thread starter jdp8402
- Start date
700rpm
Well-known member
This is a 29. 1929 business coupes had the oval windows. See my avatar. About 36,000 were made. Your car, if it's really a 29, is a sport coupe missing the landau irons. If it's a 28, it could be either a business coupe or a sport coupe. Adding the irons would make the difference.
Lycoming-8
Member
I have a 1929 Business coupe, with a Feb date on the gas tank firewall. It has a drum tail light, handbrake lever in front of the shifter lever, correct headlights, and NO Oval window. It also has no landau irons, or brackets for them. The diagonal top bow, which extends up and back from the triangular bracket behind the door, passes right thru the area where a later car's oval window would have been.
These cars do exist, but they are rarely seen !!!
These cars do exist, but they are rarely seen !!!
Last edited:
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
Charleville,
DANDY looking car & the rumble seat looks REALLY GOOD!!
Without the oval windows, you can conduct "business" in relative privacy!!
Bill W.
DANDY looking car & the rumble seat looks REALLY GOOD!!
Without the oval windows, you can conduct "business" in relative privacy!!
Bill W.
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
Once again, guys - the early (pre-June) 1929 Business Coupe did NOT have the oval windows in the top. Ford added that to dress the car up a bit and to quietcomplaints about poor quarter panel vision. I guess he didn't care about the Sport Coupe and Cabriolet owners, who still had poor quarter panel vision. 
Marshall
Marshall
Mike V. Florida
Well-known member
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
One would think that a July, 1929 Business Coupe would probably have the oval windows by that time. But each factory was different. Some implemented new features as soon as they arrived, while others used up existing stocks/filled orders before installing new features. Examples would be outside door handles on open cars and vacuum windshield wipers, all depending upon suppliers and the assembly plants themselves. Your July car was built within 30 days of the change = anything can happen.
The top on your car has clearly been changed somewhere along the line. If it had been a Business Coupe with oval side windows, they were not re-installed. If this was one of the last 1929 Business Coupes made without these windows, that would explain their absence now. I still think that the definitive answer can be found by a close inspection of the trunk/rumbleseat area. Look for telltale signs of a restorer-added rumble seat:
(1) anchor pin holes not filled in along the decklid sides up top
(2) poorly filled-in handle hole at the bottom on a trunk lid
(3) poorly installed rear inner curved panel between the outer lower panel (where the spare tire carrier is located) and the seat platform (which is present in both configurations)
(4) decklid lower stop brackets bolted to the sheet metal panels instead of being riveted
(5) rumbleseat hinges installed with sheet metal screws
(6) seat backrest poorly attached to the decklid = flops around or big gap along top
(7) poorly aligned decklid vis-à-vis opening for the lid, side-to-side and top-to-bottom
(8) No slot cut inside the decklid up top for the handle's latch catch finger to exit
(9) no bracket or holes in the upper rain gutter rail for the handle's catch finger
(10) no angled guide plates installed in the rain gutter to help align the decklid side-to-side.
If you can determine that the rumbleseat was there from the factory, your car was probably originally a Sport Coupe that someone neglected to re-install the landau irons, which rust easily and break. I believe once this issue is settled one way or another, you can decide which body style your car originally was.
By the way, were there any of those landau iron anchor brackets present that I mentioned in an earlier posting?
Marshall
The top on your car has clearly been changed somewhere along the line. If it had been a Business Coupe with oval side windows, they were not re-installed. If this was one of the last 1929 Business Coupes made without these windows, that would explain their absence now. I still think that the definitive answer can be found by a close inspection of the trunk/rumbleseat area. Look for telltale signs of a restorer-added rumble seat:
(1) anchor pin holes not filled in along the decklid sides up top
(2) poorly filled-in handle hole at the bottom on a trunk lid
(3) poorly installed rear inner curved panel between the outer lower panel (where the spare tire carrier is located) and the seat platform (which is present in both configurations)
(4) decklid lower stop brackets bolted to the sheet metal panels instead of being riveted
(5) rumbleseat hinges installed with sheet metal screws
(6) seat backrest poorly attached to the decklid = flops around or big gap along top
(7) poorly aligned decklid vis-à-vis opening for the lid, side-to-side and top-to-bottom
(8) No slot cut inside the decklid up top for the handle's latch catch finger to exit
(9) no bracket or holes in the upper rain gutter rail for the handle's catch finger
(10) no angled guide plates installed in the rain gutter to help align the decklid side-to-side.
If you can determine that the rumbleseat was there from the factory, your car was probably originally a Sport Coupe that someone neglected to re-install the landau irons, which rust easily and break. I believe once this issue is settled one way or another, you can decide which body style your car originally was.
By the way, were there any of those landau iron anchor brackets present that I mentioned in an earlier posting?
Marshall
Marshall, thank you for the reply. I'm almost certain that the rumble seat is not factory. I posted a picture earlier that shows two holes on the top side of the trunk lid that I assume were holes for hinges. I'll post the picture again. I also noticed after taking pictures that the paint is cracked in the middle lower part of the trunk lid. I'm guessing that's where the original handle was for the trunk. The previous owner probably just filled the hole with bondo.
Attachments
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
Agreed on both counts that you state, and both are very common traits seen in rumble seat conversions. Place a good magnet over the cracking paint on the lower part of the decklid where the original handle hole was. If the magnet doesn't stick, it's most likely Bondo beneath, which is very often just plastered in the hole. The Bondo, of course, shrinks as it cures, taking any paint on top with it = cracking/crazing. A very common amateur restoration problem.
I am still of the opinion that you have a 1929 Business Coupe, which may or may not have had port windows in the top. Does the car have a drum taillight mounted to the lower rear body subframe or is the taillight mounted on the left rear fender? That also helps determine early (pre-May or June) or late 1929 models, allowing for minor factory timeline deviations. Seven-tooth or two-tooth steering column?
Marshall
I am still of the opinion that you have a 1929 Business Coupe, which may or may not have had port windows in the top. Does the car have a drum taillight mounted to the lower rear body subframe or is the taillight mounted on the left rear fender? That also helps determine early (pre-May or June) or late 1929 models, allowing for minor factory timeline deviations. Seven-tooth or two-tooth steering column?
Marshall
The taillight is mounted on the left fender. How do i tell if it's a seven or two tooth steering column? I'm agreeing that it is a business coupe. Here's a screen shot from the Craigslist ad. It's kind of a bad picture. I'll try to get a better one later.
Attachments
700rpm
Well-known member
Once again, guys - the early (pre-June) 1929 Business Coupe did NOT have the oval windows in the top. Ford added that to dress the car up a bit and to quietcomplaints about poor quarter panel vision. I guess he didn't care about the Sport Coupe and Cabriolet owners, who still had poor quarter panel vision.
Marshall
Right Marshall. I forgot about the late date introduction of the oval windows on 29s. Though the date on my firewall is May 1929, and the VIN confirms this date.
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
700rpm -
You must have one of the early batch of 1929 Business Coupes with the new oval windows. Great looking car, especially with the brown top material. I have seen a couple Business Coupes with the oval windows mounted in white/tan material, but yours looks better to me. 'Always wanted one of these coupes with oval windows, but the opportunity never presented itself. Maybe someday...
jdp8402 -
Since the taillight is mounted on the rear fender, chances are 50/50 that your Business Coupe had oval windows, as the taillight was relocated from the body to the fender in the May-June timeframe. If your car is later than July, 1929, it most certainly did have the windows by then. May-June could be if'y, depending upon the assembly plant.
This May-June timeframe was also when the change from seven-tooth to two-tooth steering systems took effect in passenger cars. It's easy to tell the two apart. At the steering box, the seven-tooth has only a zerk fitting or a filler pipe plug on top of the housing tube, while the two-tooth box has the zerk or plug, plus a clamp between the box and column tube. There are also a couple adjustment nuts visible on the side facing the fender. Up on the quadrant, seven-tooth columns have a longer notched quadrant arc, while the '29 two-tooth column has a shorter path with large "ears" on either end. You won't be able to see it with the light switch in place, but the seven-tooth steering wheel is splined, while the two-tooth is keyed. Modern repo steering wheels are made both ways for switching between steering systems. This makes it possible to put a red 1928 or black 1929 splined steering wheel on a '29-31 two-tooth keyed steering shaft. But that's another story.
If in doubt which steering system you have, post a photo of your steering box from the driver's side.
Marshall
You must have one of the early batch of 1929 Business Coupes with the new oval windows. Great looking car, especially with the brown top material. I have seen a couple Business Coupes with the oval windows mounted in white/tan material, but yours looks better to me. 'Always wanted one of these coupes with oval windows, but the opportunity never presented itself. Maybe someday...
jdp8402 -
Since the taillight is mounted on the rear fender, chances are 50/50 that your Business Coupe had oval windows, as the taillight was relocated from the body to the fender in the May-June timeframe. If your car is later than July, 1929, it most certainly did have the windows by then. May-June could be if'y, depending upon the assembly plant.
This May-June timeframe was also when the change from seven-tooth to two-tooth steering systems took effect in passenger cars. It's easy to tell the two apart. At the steering box, the seven-tooth has only a zerk fitting or a filler pipe plug on top of the housing tube, while the two-tooth box has the zerk or plug, plus a clamp between the box and column tube. There are also a couple adjustment nuts visible on the side facing the fender. Up on the quadrant, seven-tooth columns have a longer notched quadrant arc, while the '29 two-tooth column has a shorter path with large "ears" on either end. You won't be able to see it with the light switch in place, but the seven-tooth steering wheel is splined, while the two-tooth is keyed. Modern repo steering wheels are made both ways for switching between steering systems. This makes it possible to put a red 1928 or black 1929 splined steering wheel on a '29-31 two-tooth keyed steering shaft. But that's another story.
If in doubt which steering system you have, post a photo of your steering box from the driver's side.
Marshall
Rowdy
BANNED
Definately a 2 tooth. Better box than the 7 tooth. Now curious if it is the 1929 style 2 tooth or a 30-31. The difference is in the markings, length of tube and style of quadrant. The 29 2 tooth is somewhat rare and pretty desirable. The 30-31 is pretty common. Also there are many who use the 30-31 box and cut down a tube from a 7 tooth and make their own that look like a correct 29 style in the interior. I have made several of these in the last 15 years for local people. Rod
Dick Carne
Senior Member
KGBNut ... In response to your question about all Business Coupes having the oval side windows, my understanding was that this feature was limited to maybe just the early '29 models. I've been wrong before - perhaps someone else could enlighten us both. Good comment.
Dick
Dick
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
'Sorry, Dick. Just the opposite = the mid-1929 and later Business Coupes that year had the oval windows. Pre-May or pre-June Business Coupes were like their 1928 brothers, meaning no oval windows.
Marshall
Marshall