What are my options?

41Joe

41Joe

Senior Member
I am just trying to see what my options are. I had pulled the pistons from my engine and two cylinders have some bad scoring on the walls. This engine has the thin wall sleeves. Almost all of the cylinders have some sort of vertical scratch marks going down the walls. My pistons measured at 3.0625" diameter and at the top of the cylinder I was measuring 3.200" diameter. Is that too much clearance between piston and cylinder?
So my options are:
1. resleeve all cylinders and get back to spec.
2. I can convert to a 6 cylinder. (I found a guy selling a running 6 nearby).
3. Convert to Chevy (Please don't kick me off here for that option, yet).
The problem I have is money. The closest place to me that works on flatheads is Costa Mesa R&D. They do nice work. But just for cleaning and magnafluxing the block and crank is going to cost $325. I am not even sure how much they charge for other services.
I am pretty sure I can get the flathead 6 for cheap. I have leads on a bellhousing and flywheel. Not sure what else is needed for this though. Any suggestions?
I have a workmate that has a chevy. The adapters are cheap enough online.
I would prefer to go the 6 cylinder route. Just not sure what is needed for that conversion.
 

Attachments

  • Flathead 034.jpg
    Flathead 034.jpg
    49.9 KB · Views: 95
  • Flathead 035.jpg
    Flathead 035.jpg
    40.2 KB · Views: 77
Why not find a good running used flatty 59A or A-B. If we were a lot closer I got one out of 46 but there's gotta be a hot rodder around you butchering a car that was running to get another good running Flathead
 
If it were mine I would find a good running flathead V8 or just wait, save some cash and build a 59A engine. The SBC idea is simple but in my opinion boring and I've seen enough 350's in Fords to last 2 lifetimes. If all else fails and you go with a small block put a 302 Ford in there.
 
I have looked for V8's. Nobody is selling anything nearby. The SBC is my dead last option. I would rather go for a SBF but the conversion sounded a little more complicated and I only found one supplier making adapters.
I'm going to wait for now and see what comes up.
 
If you were closer I'd help you out with this. I have numerous engine cores and would be glad to assemble the engine after you had the machine work completed.
 
Another option is to replace the thin-wall sleeves - in either two or all cylinders, hone them and put the pistons back in . . . with a new set of rings. You may not even need to hone them . . . not really sure.

Ford used the thin-wall or "tin-can" sleeves so that it was easy to rebuild these blocks - without going to the machine shop. If your block has these sleeves, this could be the fastest/easiest route.

I've never actually removed/installed these sleeves - as all my engines are larger bores and are not sleeved, but I think you can get some advice on here about installation and get a machine shop to do the work - with the least expense possible. This assumes your pistons are good and the rest of the engine is in good shape (big assumption), but worth considering.

Here is a link to a site that supposedly has the sleeves:

http://dennis-carpenter.com/3-116-sleeve-thin-wall-with-lip/p/91A-6055/
 
Another option bore to 3.187 std size Pistons are readily available on eBay for very reasonable money. You get the extra performance as a bonus.Phil
 
Bored&Stroked said:
Another option is to replace the thin-wall sleeves - in either two or all cylinders, hone them and put the pistons back in . . . with a new set of rings. You may not even need to hone them . . . not really sure.

Ford used the thin-wall or "tin-can" sleeves so that it was easy to rebuild these blocks - without going to the machine shop. If your block has these sleeves, this could be the fastest/easiest route.

I've never actually removed/installed these sleeves - as all my engines are larger bores and are not sleeved, but I think you can get some advice on here about installation and get a machine shop to do the work - with the least expense possible. This assumes your pistons are good and the rest of the engine is in good shape (big assumption), but worth considering.

Here is a link to a site that supposedly has the sleeves:

http://dennis-carpenter.com/3-116-sleeve-thin-wall-with-lip/p/91A-6055/
Click to expand...
I am actually looking into this. My pistons look good and the rest of the engine looks good, aside from a lot of sludge. Any idea on the average cost of resleeving?

Not to change the subject, but what is needed for the 6 cylinder conversion? Is it just the bellhousing and flywheel are different? Do I need a different pressure plate? What about the front motor mounts? The guy with the 6 is very close and doesn't want much for his engine. I could at least get my car running and driving and be able to set my 8 aside and save money for a rebuild. Or sell it and save for a 59A.
 
The thin walls sleeves are an easy replacement & come finish honed . The K.R.Wilson tool for removing & installing these sleeves allows you to perform this operation in the vehicle with the crankshaft in . The first time I ever did this it took 40 minute start to finish. You would need to find someone close with this tool & a set of sleeves . I have a couple of sets of the sleeve puller/installer to sell . Sleeves are not too hard to find either .try Barnfind08 here on the barn , he may have some .
Good luck !
Cheers
Tony
 
you will need the radiator, front motor mounts, front shroud and radiator brackets. The transmission case is also different (all the gears interchange). Not sure of flywheel and clutch.
The 6 is a underappreciated engine. Has more torque and HP. Go for it, you can always go back when you find a V8.
Paul
 
Save up and install another flatty....not a 6.........not a SBC.
You will be happier in the end.
 
19Fordy said:
Save up and install another flatty....not a 6.........not a SBC.
You will be happier in the end.
Click to expand...

In my experience it's the myriad little things that slow the build and cause cost overruns when swapping from the original configuration. They eat away the initial savings of an sbc and then you are left with a car worth less because it lost the cool factor of the original hardware. You will end up paying the same or more, on the front during the build and on the back when you sell.
 
Re-sleeve that would be easiest and cheapest thing to do. It is hard to believe you can't find a machine shop or hobbyist close to you that can do this kind of work. Look for a shop that works on engines not jus flatheads, i think you are narrowcasting. Any shop should be able to do the work if you supply the needed parts.
 
Last edited:
Years ago I had the local vocational automobile school install a sleeve in my 8BA.
Is that a possibility where you are?
 
Just so you're clear - these sleeves are NOT the same as thick-wall sleeves that machine shops normally install in all sorts of other engines. These are special thin-wall sleeves that are designed to be knocked out and replaced without machine shop operations (where they bore the block and press the thick-wall ones in). All you need is the installation tool (that keeps them from collapsing) and the special Ford-only thin-wall "tin-can" sleeves.

Also, most machine shops won't even understand what I just said - unless they are very well versed in flatheads and understand this special situation (that Ford only made for a couple years).
 
I worked for a Ford tractor dealer in the 60's and we would use a chisel similar to one the you use to split an exhaust pipe off a muffler and just split the sleeve from the bottom to remove it and freeze the sleeve and shove it in. Quite often, we would need to use s sealant on the sleeve to keep it from moving up and down when the engine was running.
 
Bored&Stroked said:
Just so you're clear - these sleeves are NOT the same as thick-wall sleeves that machine shops normally install in all sorts of other engines. These are special thin-wall sleeves that are designed to be knocked out and replaced without machine shop operations (where they bore the block and press the thick-wall ones in). All you need is the installation tool (that keeps them from collapsing) and the special Ford-only thin-wall "tin-can" sleeves.

Also, most machine shops won't even understand what I just said - unless they are very well versed in flatheads and understand this special situation (that Ford only made for a couple years).
Click to expand...

So is this something that the run of the mill mechanic can do?
A few questions then:
Where do you buy these sleeves?
Is the installation tool something special and where can I get one?
How hard is it to remove the old sleeves?
I found a machine shop that will hot tank and magnaflux the block and crank for $200.
 
One thing that I am surprised no one asked about was the cylinder wall diameter of 3.200". I assumed that this was a 221 CID motor since they never used the tin can types in the 239 CID motor. The tin can sleeves were not like the 1/8" or thicker sleeves. The cylinder bore would be less the 3.187" if the sleeve was removed so something is going on there. On the old tin can sleeve engines, you still have to bore them to the 3 3/16" size after the sleeve is removed to use the standard 239 CID engine's pistons. The 221 CID engines were only 3 1/16" with somewhere around a .040" thick sleeve. That puts the bore at a size that is less than 3.1875". There used to be .082" oversize 221 pistons made so that a person could remove the tin can sleeves, hone the cylinder walls, and install the oversize pistons.

You need to carefully check those bores to insure the sleeves are in fact still there or if it has thick wall sleeves. If the bore is 3.200" in all the bores then it will need larger pistons than standard or it may need thick wall sleeves installed to replace the damaged ones.
 
41Joe said:
So is this something that the run of the mill mechanic can do?
A few questions then:
Where do you buy these sleeves?
Is the installation tool something special and where can I get one?
How hard is it to remove the old sleeves?
I found a machine shop that will hot tank and magnaflux the block and crank for $200.
Click to expand...

Joe read post #9
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top