Welding Cars

cmbrucew said:
Farmers loved that old forney welder. Good for charging batteries, stick welding, and carbon arc for welding, and brazing thin metal.
Bruce
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That old Forney welder is in the same class as the Smith Roles 180 I've had here for 40+ years. Zero maintenance other than new cables and clamps when the rubber deteriorated. Its still all I need for heavier metals so I'm reluctant to invest in another welder for anything heavier than sheet metal because I just don't need it. But I guess the little AC 110 stick welder is not the answer I'm looking for either.
 
Ralph, maybe you should try to make a deal with one of these guys with an extra "stitch" welder attachment. They would probably let them go real cheap, and from what I can see from the article "glennpm" posted, they may even work! I know I'm gonna dig mine out and try it again now that I know how it is supposed to work. I'll post the results.

One other thing; the cheapo (<$100) 110 volt welder I bought that didn't work on 110 volts wasn't a total loss. I took it apart, and the switch had provisions to run it on 220 volts. I rewired the switch and changed the plug and it worked for a while. It eventually burnt out the leads from the transformer to the plug-ins for the cables. I replace them with some heavier wire and got it working again. THAT'S when my neighbor decided he wanted it.
 
I had a Forney just like the one shown in the pick. I bought it 35 yrs ago and it always worked great. I sold it 5yrs ago when I bought a Miller Autoset 211. Seeing that picture gets me pissed off all over again for selling it!...... Mark
 
I've used a 180 amp arc welder turned down to 70-80 to self sheet metal on cars. It's not easy though...
(If you can get a really cheap mig maybe it'll be worth it?)
 
There is also the welding rod/wire issue on body panels. The rod/wire needs to be a soft enough materal that you can work it after welding. Just something to keep in mind when selecting a welder. I only messed with a non-cover gas MIG setup for a few minutes once (didn't care for it), if you go that route be sure you can get a wire you are satifed with. I'm using .023 ER70S2 wire. You might check over on the HAMB, a lot of body metal welding threads over there.
 
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dumb person said:
I've used a 180 amp arc welder turned down to 70-80 to self sheet metal on cars. It's not easy though...
(If you can get a really cheap mig maybe it'll be worth it?)
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From my experience with sheet metal and the old stick welder I found it almost impossible to make a decent weld and not burn through the metal.
Looking at some of the cheaper Migs at Canadian Tire. They have a cheap Mastercraft line and the higher priced Lincolns. The flux core wire interests me as it does not require gas tanks. Some reviews complain the weld spatters a lot but I dont' see that as a big issue. I have a grinder,files, etc. As long as it welds without burning. Still researching.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/lincoln-electric-mig-pak-140-wire-feed-welder-0588040p.html#srp
 
The 70 in the filler wire tells you how hard it is. This is why I weld with RG45 and O/A gas. It's the softest filler that is easy to use. I could use RG60 but I like to have ductility to be able to file and hammer the welds without problems. ER60 is about the softest wire you can buy but it's even a bit too hard for me.

I would recommend against flux core filler wire. The stuff makes it hard to weld without nasty splatter. It's bad enough using CO2 mix gas but it's a lot easier than with flux core wire. Argon makes for a better looking weld but CO2 argon mix cools slightly better for steel and is less expensive. Flux wire doesn't cool anything. Purchasing your own bottles is really not that expensive. That way you can get them filled anywhere you want. If you rent them, your stuck with the place you rent them from. I own all my own bottles and I wouldn't purchase the little ones either. They just don't hold enough for a big job and you have to keep exchanging them out every time you turn around. I'd go with a medium size bottle unless you do a lot of welding.
 
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ralph i see you are a farmer. i too live in a farming community, not a farmer but i know ag equipment needs lots of repair. do yourself a favor and buy a good wire feed welder and you will hardly ever touch the stick welder again. no dragging the rod along to strike an arc, just pull the trigger. its easy and you will get spoiled. my old millermatic 35 even has a spot weld feature. only rated at 160 amps, but they were over built, last forever, and many show up in the used market as they were very popular when new. over at the miller forums you can read that many folks still prefere them over they're newer machines. craigs list item from 2-400 usually. my first was a hobart beta mig, cost 1800 in 1980 which was huge money for me at the time but i never regretted it. that unit burned in a fire and i replaced it with the old miller because i knew a few friends that had one and liked it. so, my choice, but you can shop around to see what you like. get a 220 machine, and get the argon/co2 mix. forget the flux core wire as its twice the money every time you buy wire, and it leaves slag to be chipped off like your stick welder. buy a good one and your business will be happy and your merc will be happy! good luck
 
Still appreciating all the replies and information offered here. The price of a good Mig is going to take a while for me to get used to. Way more than I ever planned on spending. If it happens at all it won't be right away.
 
Hi Ralf, the migs do spatter a lot, about twice as bad as a stick on standard farm repairs, they work way better on clean/new metal. Spatters like a sandblaster if there’s any amount of rust. I’ve used both innershield and co2/argon , both spatter about the same, but the innershield you can get a cleaner weld with a breeze if you prefer or have to weld out doors. Yes, they’re pricey, but I wouldn’t be without mine. I have a 211 Miller , it’s small yet can weld 1/4” easy, can set it up for either wire, can run it off 110 or 220v (just change cord ends) and has an auto set feature plus infinite wire/heat settings (so you can dial it right in for what you’re doing)

PS. Christmas is coming up, get the family to help chip in on a special gift for you! [emoji41]
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Saving iron from the scrap pile one piece at a time
 
I have a 211 Miller and it is a good welder. The auto set is handy if you are doing jobs with different thickness steel.

That said I use oxygen acetylene for sheet metal. I have used torches for a long time and it is easy for me. I use soft filler rod as mentioned.

John
 
dumb person said:
I've used a 180 amp arc welder turned down to 70-80 to self sheet metal on cars. It's not easy though...
(If you can get a really cheap mig maybe it'll be worth it?)
Click to expand...

Just curious, when you weld sheet metal with an arc welder like mine, what size rod did you use? I've hardly ever used anything other than 1/8 rods even on heavy metal. Would a thinner rod weld easier, less stick and burn through than the bigger 1/8 rods?
 
Rotorwrench, what is your source for RG60 MIG wire, I'm not finding any reference to it, just to O/A & TIG rods.
 
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I don't buy any. The RG designation is more for OA/gas welding. My local Air Gas store has the Radnor RG45 in 1/16" but they don't stock the RG60 although they can order it in. I have ER60 MIG wire on a spool and I ordered it in from a welding supply place on line. A lot of these newer cars have some really hard steel in there construction. They have to though since it's so thin. I haven't worked on a late model for a long time. I generally use the MIG on that hard stuff because it takes the temper out when a O/A torch is used. It can warp more too but that could be overcome with proper technique.
 
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Is the wire you guys are talking about the the stuff I read about on the H.A.M.B. called "EZ -Grind"?
 
I think you are referring to a Spool Arc product called ESAB mig wire. I've heard some folks don't like the way it works out. Most folks use known brand name ER70S-6 for a better quality weld. I've never tried it but it's supposed to be softer but the part number doesn't tell you how it stacks up to other weld wires. My guess is that it's just a lower quality of ER70S.
 
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RalphG said:
Just curious, when you weld sheet metal with an arc welder like mine, what size rod did you use? I've hardly ever used anything other than 1/8 rods even on heavy metal. Would a thinner rod weld easier, less stick and burn through than the bigger 1/8 rods?
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Many years ago I used 1/16" coated electrodes to do sheet metal.
Available on EBAY and various other suppliers.
( No matter how you weld it, proper preparation of the weld joint/area is key to a good weld)
See here---------

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6013-1-16-...hash=item4b235d2175:m:mq-8E5xEfB_SEyRMa8KlMBw
 
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tubman said:
Is the wire you guys are talking about the the stuff I read about on the H.A.M.B. called "EZ -Grind"?
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Well, I'm sure not a wire expert, but a lot of the guys that do a lot of panel welding (including on the HAMB) recommend the ER70s-2. They claim the -6 is much harder to grind/work. So, that's what I started using. I haven't performed side by side test of various wire types, so relaying on the input of others here! The 70 is the tenssal strength and the dash number is the chemical makeup of the wire.
 
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