Weird Knock in Neutral With Clutch Out

J

jg61hawk

Senior Member
I start the car and there is periodically a noise like something is being thrown about inside the transmission. It's not constant like a bang more like a nail got dropped into the trans and is being kicked up once every 10-15 seconds. If I depress the clutch it stops. If I drive it still happens. I can feel the the shift lever get "a hit" when the noise happens. I drained the trans and flushed it with kerosine and refilled it. I did find metal flakes in the drain plug cup and in the oil.

I found an old post here https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68894&highlight=knocking+transmission. Tom (rest his soul) described my problem pretty close. He posted : When I first bought my 28, and let the clutch out in neutral, the ****** sounded like a bucket of gears being tumbled in a cement mixer. When I took the ****** apart, every part inside was like NOS, except for the bearing between the input and output shafts. It had a couple of crunched rollers, and you wouldn't believe the racket it made.

To check this out you could put the rear on jack stands, shift to 3rd gear and let the clutch out. Now the input and output shafts will be turning as one straight shaft and that little bearing will not be moving in relation to the shaft.

What do you guys think it is? The car runs strong, shifts smooth and everything works.

Can the transmission come out in a shade tree mechanic's garage? I have pulled Studebaker engines...the Model A seems a bit tricky in that the Wishbone and rear would have to come out...asking not telling????

Last question...Can these transmissions take a pretty good beating...I'm thinking I only drive it locally like 500 miles a year...It's a driver not a show car...maybe just watch it and see what happens.
 
If it was my car I would not drive it until I found out what was making the racket. The easiest thing to do is to take the cover off the top of the transmission and take a peek. For my money, the best way to get the transmission out is to pull it with the engine. you have to take the cover off with the gearshift and emergency brake lever and remove the brake and clutch pedals. If you have pulled the engine on your 61 Hawk, you should have no problems pulling the engine and transmission on the Model A.
 
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Well that's a thought...but I think that's how old cars become barn finds. I'm gonna drive the piss out of it until it tells me what is wrong by taking a crap. Then I will fix it. I own this car it doesn't own me...and it needs to know that...old or not it needs to understand the food chain!
 
jg61hawk said:
Well that's a thought...but I think that's how old cars become barn finds. I'm gonna drive the piss out of it until it tells me what is wrong by taking a crap. Then I will fix it. I own this car it doesn't own me...and it needs to know that...old or not it needs to understand the food chain!
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That's an unusual approach to take, but it's yours to do as you wish. Remember you did ask for advice. I would think investigating the cause would be an easier and less time consuming process than replacing a transmission after it takes a crap. My understanding is the Model A 3 speed is not a strong transmission.

I hope it doesn't end up in a barn for the next 60 years after a minor repair is put off to drive the piss out of it.
 
I also advise buying a spare transmission now so when it does take a crap you have a replacement.
 
I would not even drive it into the garage.I would push it,slowly.Driving it will turn a possible $10.repair into hundreds or thousands.
 
I'm on board with post #2, not really a big deal to remove the top of the ******, drain, rinse with some kerosene. Move the gears see what's what. Or wait for it to lock up whistling down the road and create more damage, or grenade. Be a good time to add those shift rail seals if it leaks. I hate being broke down on the road, much rather be broke down in my shop. Good luck.
 
I re-read my response...I didn't mean to seem ungrateful or rude...just was thinking I can't really fix anything from the top. I found metal in the drain plug cup...and I am sure the Cluster Gear is probably the suspect.

I will take your advice and park it...order up some parts so I have them before I blow the case apart. Thanks.
 
jg61hawk -
Although not as easy as changing ignition points, pulling an engine and transmission isn't as difficult or as time consuming as you might think. If the car is not rusted or welded together, you should be able to be ready to yank them out in about 2 1/2 to 3 hours, tops. It's a fairly straight forward procedure. Most of your time will be spent unbolting the engine block and U-joint, as well as removing the radiator, hood and manifolds. Life will also be easier if you take off the headlight bar. You won't have to lift the engine up so high coming out or going in.
If you have removed the engine in your Studebaker and survived the ordeal, there should be no surprises pulling a Model A engine. Consider changing the rear mount rubber pads while you're at it. And see if you can borrow a frame spreader from a local Model A guy. It makes sliding the engine back into place SOOOOOOOOOO much easier!
Marshall
 
When I changed the transmission to a Mitchell transmission I removed the rearend, then dropped the transmission out . It would have been quicker and easier except ( for me) that I also installed a Mitchell overdrive . If you have some engine work go that way , some like bending over others like laying down when working on the A’s ;-)
 
As "Big hammer" recommends, I USED to do it that way to avoid pulling the engine with its attendant discomfitures, such as removing the radiator, hood and then trying not to scratch the front fenders while removing and installing the engine/transmission. But since I have suffered an irreparable rotator cuff injury, plus aging weaknesses, I can no longer lie beneath the car and lift a transmission into place to perform a clutch change or transmission removal. From here on out it will be an engine/transmission in tandem removal for me. For decades it was a rear end removal to do these repairs, which back then was far quicker for me to do than an engine removal. But time and trains wait for no man (Trains???). Consider these factors when deciding whether to remove the engine or rear end to fix your transmission.
Marshall
 
I had the exact same noise. Sounded like a bolt bouncing around inside. Drove it for a year before pulling it. The bearing was in pieces. Tom was right on the money. Dropping the trans isn't as bad as it looks. Jack up the rear, pull the torque tube, slide it back. Just have a good jack and some patience.
 
FWIW, I have also had a roller bearing inside the main cluster go t*ts up. I was lucky it didn’t get so far as to come out but it fell into pieces as I was removing the main shaft. There are quite a few imported repos of that bearing running around that are not worth a damn, it’s worth some digging to see if you can find a good Hyatt or Bower. Check with Snyder’s or Bert’s, I believe they may have a good source of those bearings these days. Steve Mitchell once told me that at one point he had a heck of a time finding good reliable bearings for his ****** rebuilds.
 
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Take the shift tower off if you haven't already and peak down inside. like others have said don't get smart and try to start the engine or you will be cussing about it for months. i'd also take the clutch inspection cover off and look down at the clutch. something might have broken off and is wedged between the pressure plate and disc. if the clutch and transmission are ok, then it might be the rear bearing as Kurt said. for your sake i hope it's something simple.
 
Don't drive the car. I agree with the comments above, push the car back into the garage. The difficult thing with a transmission rebuilt is finding American made gears and bearings. Hopefully you can find NOS stock parts. When I go to Hershey I am always looking for NOS gears and bearings. The cluster gear is the hardest to find.

The nicest sound coming from a Model A is leaving a stop sign and hearing the sound from a new first gear and second gear. I feel sorry for all modern car drivers who never get to have this experience. Ed
 
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