Water Pump Rear Bearing

[jpeconsult]

After searching, I cannot find my answer...

1929 Tudor

I notice a significant difference between the "old" rear bushing and the "new" rear bushing. The main difference being the head of the bushing as it relates to the grease hole in each. If the new bushing is pressed so the grease hole aligns with the grease fitting hole of the housing, the bushing extends out from the housing the same distance of the "old" bushing. I hope my explanation makes sense. See the comparison in the picture and advise.

Thanks. -Jeremy

 

[Joe K]

Perhaps there are those who have successfully used the "new" version...

...but I would send it back. It looks like it would put the impeller too far back and will cause binding on the limit stop cast into the cylinder head.

Some things you want to leave well enough alone...

Joe K

 

[jpeconsult]

Plus if pressed all the way in, the grease hole wouldn't align with the fitting hole on the housing.

I don't see the "old" one at Snyder's. I do see the new one alone and in kits. Does anyone recognize the old one?

 

[Joe K]

Plus if pressed all the way in, the grease hole wouldn't align with the fitting hole on the housing.

I don't see the "old" one at Snyder's. I do see the new one alone and in kits. Does anyone recognize the old one?

Actually, the pix Snyder's is showing seems to be the "old" one. Both in the original style and the "seal" style. Seal style shown below...

I can't say I see the "new" one anywhere on Snyder's pages?

Joe K

 

[jpeconsult]

Thanks, Joe. There is the sealed version (8520-B) and unsealed version (what I have; 8520) My concern is the amount of the lip at the top of the bushing. If the grease hole aligns with the housing grease hole, the bushing will stick out of the bushing by roughly a 1/2 inch. Once it is pressed in the place I want it (aligning the grease holes) will it stay in place? Should I be concerned?

 

[Joe K]

I do not think that bushing will fit in a stock model A housing.
It is not for a model A, or the housing will need to be modified for it to work.

Yup. Call your vendor. He'll make good on it - one way or the other.

Joe K

 

[jpeconsult]

I took a few minutes to assemble the pump and this is what I have. The new rear bushing COULD still be pressed in another 1/2". Whatcha think? No go?!

 

[jpeconsult]

I'm comparing my housing to vendors' pictures and does it look like my housing has been machined down where the rear bushing goes?

 

[Joe K]

The rear bushing should be pushed in up to the shoulder. You should see ALL the threads where the packing nut screws on.

Do I see a spacer or seal between the impeller and the rear bushing? It does look like your housing has been cut down.

See Snyder's pix showing the square (or teardrop) shaped washer that keys into the backside of the impeller - THAT is all there should be as a wear surface.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/uploads/WaterPumpExplodedDrawing-10151.pdf

Part 3 is the teardrop washer.

New housings are cheap money. I paid $3 for a housing WITH impeller and parts at Amherst, NH flea market. Ebay the same can be bought for $10 plus shipping.

Note the housing neck on this $9.99 Ebay barn fresh.

Joe K

 

[jpeconsult]

I have seen the teardrop washer.

Considering, 1) we cannot find my "old" bushing from any of the vendors, 2) it looks like my housing has been machined, and 3) the spacer/seal & spring we see by my impeller cannot be found and the diagramed all show a teardrop washer, I think I can safely assume I must have an older version of an aftermarket replacement.

I think my best option is to buy a complete replacement water pump assembly, rather than trying to piece one together and hope it all jives.

Which water pump is preferred? I have read some prefer the leakless, but there looks to be several options and I am too new to the hobby to just pick one in guessing.

Thank you, Joe for working with me. Jeremy

 

[Joe K]

I'm kind of a cheap sort. Jack Benny and I would get along fine I'm sure. Hence the $3 pump and the (then) $22 rebuild kit. Which didn't have a stainless shaft since there were none offered.

Today I would (and have) do pretty much the same but buy the better shaft - and buy it in the 1/4" long extended length and then grind it down to fit in against the bridge in the cylinder head (with about 0.005 to 0.010 play.)

I like to upgrade the rear bearing to the cartridge lip seal type as shown in my pix above. These work nicely with a little grease - and you have the option to install packing loosely which is like a belt and suspenders. You can always tighten up the gland if the lip seal fails.

The fronts I have done as original bearing - also using a torrington sleeve and needle cartridge (which you don't have to lubricate but complicates the assembly process as the sleeve has to be pressed on while holding the other parts in approximate position.)

Thus between these two upgrades, it almost brings you to an ultimate pump - but at about half the cost.

The ultimate pump is nice though. It brings you past the issue of end play and having to grind the nose of the impeller to fit.

But for me, there is something kind of basic and back to origins in having an original pump with original components. It is a design that really worked well - and worked simply.

One of my pet peeves in my working on modern automobiles is that today's mechanics are simply "replacers" - and the ultimate pump is kind of that same thinking but applied to the Model A.

And why own a vintage car simply to make it non-vintage? Not to say that there are not areas where it might be made better - by one's self.

That's part of the fun too.

But for some the ultimate pump is, well, the ultimate. I can understand why. Each to their own.

Joe K