water pump pic.

48thames

Member
My water pump has a lot of end play and I want to change it. When I got the car, there was a water pump included with the spare parts and I would like to know if the collar is in the right spot. It looks like it's been rebuilt.
I am also thinking about changing the four blade fan for a two blade. I read that the two blade works as good as the four blade and that the four blade comes apart when least expecting it and making a mess.
Thanks
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Your pump above may be a "forever" pump (see below) as it has not stub beyond the impeller to contact the bridge in the head. Normal Model A pumps have this shaft extension which between bridge and brass rear bearing limit the end to end shaft motion.

Um. You don't say if your two blade fan is an original. If it is you may want to set aside BOTH fans.

Go buy an aluminum fan in the close to original airplane propeller pattern.

Or at least something other than original fans.

As to the water pump end play, have you tried the new pump in place to see how tight it is? It may be fine without ANY collar.

Many use the collars and report good success, but mechanically they're a dodge. Not part of the original design they're an adaptation created by need. Not to say they won't work - but just not my preferred.

You may have other options. The current breed of "Forever" pumps have a captive front bearing that does away with end play issues entirely. A little pricey though.

Or finding end play you can build up the shaft end with weld, grind it down, and re-establish the correct end play by trial and error.

Or tap the impeller end of the water pump shaft and sink a brass bolt there to take up space. You might even make it adjustable? Be sure to stake it AND use Loctite as you don't want it to move.

Or you can tap the bridge in the head for a cone head bolt, and screw it home on loctite and adjust it until the loctite sets in place. Even spot mill the head of the bolt if it is still too proud.

Or drop back 10 yards and rebuild a pump with the long shaft - and start over again.

Or use the collar...

Just try playing around with things. The thing to remember is to have NO MORE than 0.010 end play which will prevent the teardrop or square washer from getting out of it's recess in the impeller - and by spinning and wearing the shaft eventually cut your impeller off the end of the pump shaft.

Joe K
 
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Most mount the collar at the front of the pump where it is hidden by the fan. The collar will serve the same purpose where it is but will show and would have to be loosened and slid foward when the packing nut was backed off to grease the pump.

The original two blade prop fan or the repro aluminum two blade prop fan moves more air than the old replacement four blade fan because it has more pitch. The new balanced two blade repro fan from Snyders is the better choice in any case.
 
I think the locking collar is great, and it lets the pump be used on differend engines without needing to make special adjustments. I put my collar in the front, as intended.

These are two more pictures from the cut-a-way at the Gilmore Model A Museum.
 

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And so you'll know what a complete pump looks like OUT of the car, here is a pix.

Note the shaft nub extended beyond the impeller - a feature your replacement pump seems not to have. (leading me to believe it may be a pump with a pac bearing at the front - and not free play on the shaft.)

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Joe K
 
I wonder if someone cut the rear of the shaft to make R&R easier, since it isn't needed with the collar?

With the fake stud bolts and a two blade fan, R&R is pretty easy with the rear of the shaft gone.
 
Thanks for the info. Yes someone cut the shaft flush with the impeller. The impeller is pinned to the shaft. I am going to buy a new 2 blade fan, because the 4 blade was on it when I got the car.
 
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