Water in the oil

Bob Johnson

Bob Johnson

Well-known member
I found some water in my oil today. I checked the compression and it was fine. So I removed the head to find the cause. I could not find any obvious sources of the problem. The head gasket did not have and holes or eaten away areas. I checked both the block and the head for cracks with a magnifying glass and did not see anything. Since this is a B engine there are 2 "steam" holes on either side of the center head stud (#1 stud). The holes in the gasket do not line up well with the hole in the block and head. As you can see from the picture the holes in the gasket are closer together than the ones in the gasket. The picture shows the gasket on the head. You can plainly see that the holes do not line up. The arrows point to the outside marks that the holes in the block made on the gasket. It appears to me that the arrow on the right points to a mark on the gasket which shows that the block steam hole is very close to the edge of the gasket.

First question: Could this be the source of the water leaking into the cylinders?

Second Question: How do I fix this WITHOUT removing the block from the car?

Bob


head-gasket03.jpg
 
Are you using a B head or an A head? If you use an A head you will have to plug those holes. You may have one gasket that won't leak and one that will and never know which will or won't.
 
It is ALL B, B block and B head. I put the gasket in earlier this year and it has several thousand miles on it. The head was re-torqued several times after the gasket was put in.
 
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Find a head gasket that lines up. Or make the holes larger and use gasket sealer in the edges of the holes. I always put sealer around all open gasket holes before i install. Looking at it i would bet this is where the leak is coming from. Sometimes i peel back the copper a bit and place gasket sealer between the 3 layers.Like a triple decker peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But James is a engine builder so take his advice.
 
I did use the "copper spray" on both sides of the gasket. I applied extra layers of the spray on the areas between the cylinders (maybe total of 6 coats each side). What type of sealer would you suggest?

Bob
 
How do you know you have water in the oil and is it possible u have a crack in the block? I don't see how your gasket situation at the water hole could introduce water into the crankcase??
 
I know there is water in the oil because I drained the oil and there was water in it. I did a visual inspection with a magnifying glass and I could not see any evidence of a crack in the block or head. The steam holes that the arrows point to in the picture are adjacent to the #2 and #3 cylinders. Thus a failure of the gasket at these holes would result in water in the cylinders.

Bob
 
Is there a gasket that will fit ?

Here is a picture of a Felpro 7014 gasket on my head. Notice that the holes do not line up with this one either. I measured the distance from the left edge of the left hole to the right edge of the right hole on both my head and engine. They both measured about 1.72". The same measurements on the gaskets are about 1.5" to 1.6". Does anyone have a B gasket, B head or B block that they can measure? If so what measurements do you get?

Bob
 
How much water in the oil (if you can messure that)? What's the history? I don't know a lot about anything, but mag'in the block will tell you if the block is okay. Best of luck, hope it's just the head gasket, but it looked like it sealed the edges even if it was off. But maybe not. How's that for being non-helpful.

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I'm new to model A's but on newer motors if water was getting into the cylinders you would see steam out the exhaust or bubbles in the radiator not water in the oil.
 
Bob, Is it possibile that the moisture could be coming from condensation in the air an short drives and multi vis oil. Just a thought, it used to happen to my dad in the winter here because he never drove much more than ten blocks at a time, and rarely ever got warm enough to burn your hand any where on the block.
 
Model T Monte said:
Bob, Is it possibile that the moisture could be coming from condensation in the air an short drives and multi vis oil. Just a thought, it used to happen to my dad in the winter here because he never drove much more than ten blocks at a time, and rarely ever got warm enough to burn your hand any where on the block.
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After I installed a new radiator, I took the car for a spin to see how it worked. The radiator worked too well I soon found out. When I returned, I pulled off the oil filler cap and saw a milky oil residue. I thought for a few terrifying minutes that I had water in the oil. Panicing, I checked the dipstick and the oil looked perfectly normal. But there was definitely water all over the bottom of the oil filler cap. I thought about it for a minute and then realized that my engine was not getting warm enough to boil off any condensation. A thermostat in the upper hose solved that problem.
 
IF the water was getting into the cylinders you would see steam out the tailpipe. If the head is cracked or you have issues with the head gasket, I would think that you would notice lost of water before "finding it in oil" when changing it. Most times in the past when water was truly a problem there is a grayish color to the oil. I vote for you have been running it and not getting it warm enough (more so a problem in the winter).

Good luck, D
 
Bob ,i used clear silicone sealant by GE. Like i said i make a jelly+peanut butter triple decker sandwich. It will squeeze out around the head gasket but when dry it rubs right off. I have done 5 engines to date and replaced a head gasket already on my 180A. And that's because i did not put the head gasket on in the first place.Days before French Lick meet. Boiling over in radiator due to a leaky head gasket. It takes only 1 small place.Good luck
 
If you're getting water in the oil from the cooling system, you might find the crankcase level rising, and having to add water to the radiator occasionally.

If it's not a lot of water, I suspect condensation, especially if not running at thermostat.

When I was running my '28 w/o a stat, it would take at least 10 miles driving to get the temp needle off the pin, and then it rarely climbed over 140*.

Just my 2 cents...

Hope it's nothing serious.

SC Frank
 
I thought thermostats were pointless and was trying not to make anything more compllicated then it needed to be. But now that I finally have mine on the road I am noticing that driving in 40 degree weather the top of the radiator hardly gets hot and after sitting idling I have way more power when the temp is up. As soon as I get moving the temp drops and so does a bit of power. Looks like a thermostat is going on my next parts order because I am expecting condensation to be an issue also.

Bob NJ
 
Through the years, engineers have found that the warmer an internal combustion engine runs, the more efficiently it runs ( within bounds of reason ).

180 degrees F is the recommended minimum temperature...

"Normal" on my '97 Jeep wagon with the 4 litre six is about 240* F, granted that has a pressurized cooling system.

I put a 160* stat in the upper hose about a month ago, when it started getting cool... coolant is up to temp within 5 minutes of idling / running, and generally stays between 160 & 170* F.

If you're running below 150-160* F, you're going to be running rich and making sludge...
 
There are also theories regarding fuel condensating in the cylinder walls and washing oil off at cooler temperatures. I was always told this is why most cars went to 195F stats.

Of course this will not work on an A, but I figured i'd throw it out there. I will be installing a 160F stat in our A this week.
 
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