Water flow Question

Lyle

Lyle

Senior Member
Hello All I don,t wont to open up another can of worms. I have a 52 :) Ford engine. Runs very good I wonted to run it and check out the cooling situation. With a 29 model a radiator shell. Did not have a Flathead radiator.for 29 so I plugged the return in the top with a brass plate, added to return pipes on the top. Built a right side lower pan with a suction spout. Used the stock left spout. Before we go farther. I know that A,s don,t run pressure. They cant without changing the neck.I did not wont to do more soldering at this time and I do not think the A raid.would hold much pressure at all. QUESTION is do you think running with little or no pressure will work. Without over heating.I have run it with a temp. Gauge in each head and one in the top of the radiator. Run for 30 min. or more. Run RPM up and down all 3 gauges about the same 175 -178 no fan shroud.Stock fan.ambient temp. 100 here in East Texas.Speedway pumps. The old ones started leaking. A old man told me that it would work (if ) I tested the radiator by plugging the bottom pipes with tennis balls, filling with water pull the balls and count the seconds for water to drain . if more than 3 seconds
no go. I think it is going to work till I can get a new radiator ordered and delivered. What are your thoughts. I do have thermostats in it.
 
The one time I used a modified Model A radiator with a V8 gave poor results. It was a hopped up engine but I don't think the radiator would have been sufficient for a stock engine. There are custom radiators which fit the stock shell if you have any problem with your arrangement.
 
It sounds to me that you may have answered your own questions. If you have run it for 30 minutes at 100 ambient with no heating problems sitting still, it should be able to run with air forced through it while moving without any additional problems.
 
Lyle I don't quite understand your radiator plumbing arrangement but if it works that isn't important. The old guy with the tennis balls knew some of what was going on with the cooling problem inherrant in the old Fords. As you proved with your smaller radiator if the readings you gave us are correct and I have no reason to think they aren't is that a larger more expensive radiator is not the only solution in improving cooling all though it adds to more improved cooling with pumps that deliver almost twice the flow through the existing radiator or the larger one. As I stated many times more water (larger radiator) more water flow and more air flow all increase cooling. Any one of the three help and all three on the same engine make it perfect. My 39 P/U has all three which includes a shrowd and 6 bladed industrial fan blade. This has been demonstated at a National Ford V/8 meet 5 or 6 years ago. It was over 95 outside and it ran for over 2 hours at a fast idle and never got to 180. If I raced the engine a little for a few minutes the temperature came down to 175 or less. On 5 or 6 other Fords that I drive a LOT I only have high volumn modified pumps that deliver almost twice the amount of water through the radiator and engine and a 4 lb pressure cap or the 3 lb pressure valve. These are not used as pressure devices to raise the water pressure but are saftey valves that block off the over flow tube to keep the water from backing out as the water is forced though the radiator which is required as per your tennis ball test. If there was a problem and the engine temperature go's up over approxamently 210 there is pressure made from the hot water and the valve or cap opens releasing this pressure and preventing damage to the radiator and other parts including people. When the water is forced through the radiator with a 4 lb pressure cap or 3 lb valve there is a slight back pressure and build up of water in the top tank and this will cause the radiator cap to leak if it don't have a good gasket. If you have a screw on type cap you need a gasket or "O" ring up in the cap that will compress between the inside of the cap and the top of the neck. On a cap like the 35 Ford you need to drill the rivet out and make a new gasket from the 3/16" red rubber gasket material from a hardware store. Replace the rivet with a 1/4-20 X 3/4" SS screw, lockwasher and nut with a little lock-tite on the threads. Let us know the results. Don't worry about the worms the main thing is helping you solve a problem. G.M.
 

Attachments

  • PRESSURE VALVE 2.jpg
    PRESSURE VALVE 2.jpg
    18.8 KB · Views: 38
Last edited:
GM To make things a little clearer I added a return spout on the left and right sides of the top and closed off the center return . Added a passenger side extended depth pan with a spout . Kept the stock lift hand side .The Gas tank cap has the same threads as the radiator cap and will seal tight.However the over flow tube will not seal off the pressure. Without the outside pressure valve like in the photo you have shown. This is Just a test I did not wont to run my engine without water and I wonted to test my old pumps.I WAS SURPRISED that the thing ran as cool as it did. I have not ran it without the thermostats yet. I can watch the temp. gauges and feel the top houses and tell when the thermoststs open. One of them opens ahead of the other a little. I am looking forward to a drive shaft and brake lines to do a test drive.I am sure this would not be the setup that will be used verry long. I expect a boil away of water over a short time. Maby a over flow tank and when it cools off it will suck the water back into the radiator. QUESTION would it be possable to circulate the water so fast that the water would not have time to cool in the radiator.
 
No it won't go through to fast with the built in restriction in the radiator as demonstrated with your tennis ball test. Take the thermostats out and it won't boil over if the readings you posted are correct. You need the valve for a good test but you could put a 10' peice of clear plastic hose over the overtube as shown in the picture of the valve with 9' of water in the hose. Fill the radiator up to the neck first and put the cap on and hang the hose up 5 or 6' above the car. If it gets boiling or you have a compression leak either of these will push the water out the top of the tube. Put a large fan againt the front of the radiator blowing air through it and run the engine at a speed of 35 to 40 MPH. Take the temperatures every 5 minutes on the water outlets of the heads and write them down. Run it for 30 minutes and it should stabalize at the temperature you will see driving. Remove the fan and at a slighty fast idle see how it is going to act. G.M.
 
What built in restriction are we talking about. The tennis ball test was radiator out of the car with top open and time the water flow from full to empety. Now you are saying remove the thermostats and I will #1 have more flow because of less ristriction. #2 and the more water flow will give more cooling. Right. Why did henery put thermostats in the thing if it was not needed
 
The tennis ball test how fast or how slow the water gavity feeds through the radiator. If the radiator being tested had plugged up and dirty tubes it would flow through slower taking more time. Clean it would flow faster. Even a new clean radiator will have a lot of restriction from the amount of tubes, the size of the holes in the tubes and the length. Each one off these items add restriction. When you ran the water through your radiator after the tennis balls were removed this is close to the amount you are getting through it on the engine running with the pumps. When it is running you are dumping more water in the radiator with the pumps then can drain out just like if you had a big funnel in the filler neck and dumped water in the funnel as you removed the tennis balls. This water can't go through the radiator fast enough and backs up out the funnel. This is what is happening in these radiators and the over flow tube is like the funnel it comes out there. Close the over flow with a safety valve (pressure cap or 3 lb valve) with a tight radiator cap and the pumps force MUCH MORE water through the radiator then gravity can and the cooling is much better.Thermostats are not needed in warm out side temperature only in cold weather. Thermostats do NOTHING to cool an engine, only heat them above the rateing OR MUCH HIGHER if they restrict the flow. Any new make stat I have seen will not work in a 32 to 48 Fords because the opening is to small and restricts the flow and less water go's through the radiator. Back to the basics of the tennis ball test the restriction of the stats is going to get you back above the 3 second rule if this is true. The amount of water available is MUCH less because of the stats so you are back to less water through the radiator. The original stats Ford used were in the top radiator hoses and had openings almost as big as the hose ID. There are large opening stats for 49 to 53 engines but don't fit the 32 to 48s. G.M.
 
Lyle I am running my 8ba on a radiator set up as your is (Model A tanks and lower tank modified as yours is) the overflow tube has been removed and a different filler neck installed. You shouldn't have any problems and it is just a test and you will be able to shut it down without getting into a danger zone. Okay some may want to stop reading this post now --- I am running both a '31 couple with 8ba and a 30 pickup with 8ba both with same setup and 13# radiator caps with thermostats but did have new cores installed by a radiator shop, one runs with four blade fan no shroud and the other with three blade fan no shroud. Give it a try. Also one of them is running with Antifreeze + water wetter and Speedway pumps the other has distilled water + water wetter and Skip's pumps, both have the closed recovery overflow tanks and neither has ever boiled.


Vergil
 
Last edited:
I am afraid the old A radiator will not stand much pressure. It had real thin brass in the pans. I put a little pressure on the thing while I tanked it for leaks. after modifying the radiator. O well we will see I will hope for the best Lyle
 
There is no pressure over 2 lbs below 205 if there is you have a compression leak. Run it and find out, talking about it and guessing won't tell you a thing. You had much more pressure on it when you tested it then it will ever see BELOW 205. I keep repeating 205 because these engines should never get to that temperature if you don't have a problem or sit and idle too long in hot weather. G.M.
 

Attachments

  • COOLING 4.jpg
    COOLING 4.jpg
    51.1 KB · Views: 5
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top