Washers instead of thermostats

Rocketsled

Rocketsled

Senior Member
I was thinking about all the discussions through the years about thermostats, no thermostats, or washers in place of thermostats to control the rate of water flow through the radiator.
Has anyone tried putting the washers down by the waterpumps instead of at the top outlets?
Would cavitation be a problem with the washers in that location?
Just wondering.
Happy Holidays to all!
 
Several weeks back there was a lengthy topic covering all or most of the misconceptions about how to improve the cooling system of a Ford flat head, e.g., washers in lieu of thermostats, cutting every other blade off of the water pump impeller, pressure/ no pressure cap, and the use of the new improved water pump design.

The fact of the matter is... a good clean block and a clean radiator core with a 50/50 mixture of coolant, 160-180 thermostats to regulate the minimum heat range, and a 3-4 lb pressure cap with an overflow tank, will do the job on the hottest days. Of course it should go without saying that a good fan is a must.

I have driven my '36 Ford in the Nevada, So Utah desert in the dead of summer with no problem. I have also driven the car in rush hour traffic on the freeways and streets of Southern Calif with no problems... Yes the temp rose to the top of the gauge, it did not boil, and yes the car wanted to vapor lock a time or two, however, a flick of the electric fuel pump switch solved that problem.

Interestingly, it was brought out in the earlier topic about modifications to the cooling system that the washer trick was originated by "Vic Eldlebrock" for use on race engines..... l
 
I have a dumb or maybe stupid question, but I dont know. I have no T-stats installed in a 59A engine w\ water hoses in middle of heads, I do have a pair of 170* T-stats. Do these just sit on the water inlets on the head, and the hoses go over them? What holds them in place? Seems like they would move up & down, or does the water pressure always push them down into the head inlets? I wasn't sure so I left them out. Is it better to use T-stats?
 
blucar said:
The fact of the matter is... a good clean block and a clean radiator core with a 50/50 mixture of coolant, 160-180 thermostats to regulate the minimum heat range, and a 3-4 lb pressure cap with an overflow tank, will do the job on the hottest days. Of course it should go without saying that a good fan is a must.
Click to expand...

This is the exact set-up I have used for the last five years. My 8BA runs between 180-185 even when idling along on the hottest days.
 
I put pieces of exhaust tube on top of the therostats, clamp outside hose to hold them in place... Karl
 
flat-v8 said:
Do these just sit on the water inlets on the head, and the hoses go over them? What holds them in place? Seems like they would move up & down, or does the water pressure always push them down into the head inlets?
Click to expand...

When I started using thermostats, in the winter I couldn't get the engine to heat up. I took the hoses off the top of it and the thermostats had been turned 90 degrees by the water pushing up on them (yes, it pushes UP, not down) so the water just went right past them. I then realized that they weren't going to stay down just from the pressure of the hose so I threaded the smallest piece of wire I could find (one strand of a piece of stranded wire) through the thermostat and ran it down the sides of the neck a couple of inches so that, when the hose was on, it was holding down the thermostat. Works great. Doesn't mess up the looks of things by adding extra clamps above the thermostat.
 
I have a pair of 170* stats in my 59a. I have chrome upper hoses so they hold them in place, but they seem to fit snug in the hose anyway so I don't think it would be a problem running them in the hose without anything special. I ran with no thermostats first but the temperature wasn't good, too cold in the cold, too hot in the heat. Modern thermostats are your friend.
 
blucar said:
The fact of the matter is... a good clean block and a clean radiator core with a 50/50 mixture of coolant, 160-180 thermostats to regulate the minimum heat range, and a 3-4 lb pressure cap with an overflow tank, will do the job on the hottest days. Of course it should go without saying that a good fan is a must.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Henry didn't make no junk. He had it all figured out. I've read much on this topic on this site and others and have reached the same conclusion. For a healthy engine, radiator, and coolant, there is no need to "monkey" with things. Certainly no reason whatsoever to restrict water flow or chop off fan blades. That idea was for very specialized circumstances in which engines were running constantly at very high RPM during a race, not for our normal street driving.

Additives such as Water Wetter or Purple Ice are nothing more than the same glycol that's in antifreeze so they're not needed.

Henry designed the engines to run at 160 degrees or above for many reasons I won't list. That's why thermostats are needed both summer and winter, to get the engine up to optimal operating temperature as quickly as possible.
 
what a local hotrodder whom owns a shop drilled holes near the top of the water inlet on the head after t stats where installed he ran bailing wire over the top to hold them in place before putting the hose and clamp on....just another idea
 
Once in a while I mention that when the least expensive therostats fail, they fail closed... There is a "reverse popette" thermostat that fails open- meaning- you won't cook the engine... Not many know the term... An extended conversation at Kragen showed that they had never heard that term, they had ones that failed open called "heavy duty". About twice the money, still cheap... Karl
 
I asked my local parts house about the fail-safe thermostats a year ago.
To date, they still don't have them.

So, gentlemen, it seem no one has reported putting washers low down at the pumps.
 
Karl Wolf said:
Once in a while I mention that when the least expensive therostats fail, they fail closed... There is a "reverse popette" thermostat that fails open- meaning- you won't cook the engine... Not many know the term... An extended conversation at Kragen showed that they had never heard that term, they had ones that failed open called "heavy duty". About twice the money, still cheap... Karl
Click to expand...
If this is what you are referring to I would like to add that anyone running just water is susceptible to having the thermostat(s) rust shut. it looks like this thermostat locks open if you overheat. I am not sure whether or not it will reset itself or if it needs to be serviced.

http://www.motoradusa.com/products/failsafethermo/index.html
 
Why does everyone have to reinvent the wheel and try and come up with something different?
Just do what every major motor manufacturer in the world does.

Use a thermostat.
Use a summer coolant/antifreeze mixed with water in a proportion suited to the climate.

Back it up with an adequate radiator and a fan for when you are not moving.

It isn't rocket surgery.

Mart.
 
not rocket science or quantam physics.....antifreeze keeps the water from boiling and lubricates pumps.....antifreeze today is much better than 50 yrs ago!
 
one way to keep T-stat in place is to use (2) hose clamps. one to secure hose,one above T-stat to keep it from moving. Have a good one...
 
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