V8 toploader transmission to Model A engine

flatheadkev

flatheadkev

Member
I've read through all the excellent info. on Van Pelts site. I see Cling's sells a complete kit with adapter, also Synder lists the individual parts(E-brake mount, wishbone, etc...). I'm not opposed to double clutching, but like the idea of a sycro. ****** and gear ratios that seem to make more sense on todays roadways. Has anybody installed this kit ? Is it a complete bolt on project (no cutting of anything) ?
 
Mitchell has a syncro transmission;


This is a totally new main transmission in an original Model A Case. All new gears, shafts and bearings. New shaft rail, shift forks, spring detents, “O” rings on Bottom shafts, new bearing sealed both sides on front and rear main shafts. Synchronised 2nd & 3rd gear for easier shifting and guaranteed to stay in gear.

ADVANTAGES

Absolutely no alteration to your vehicle. Remove your transmission install the Mitchell. No additional attachments to purchase. No more grinding gears, no more double clutching, shifts anywhere, any time and at any speed. Uses the same gearing technique as used in the Mitchell Overdrive. This option not only compliments the Mitchell Overdrive but also makes the Model A more easily driven by any age, male or female, experienced or novice driver, with or without an overdrive in your vehicle.
Use regular gear oil.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/mitchellsynchrotrans.htm
 
I haven't looked at this kit, but so far every 4 speed top loading ****** I think requires at least a notch to be cut from the center crossmember,:mad: and possibly converting the brakes to hydraulic. I believe the mechanic's technical term for hydraulic brakes is "yuck!" :eek:
 
I have an '37 trans with the Cling's adaptor. The adaptor work just fine, no issues, all items including trans, pedals, wishbone and E brake bolt right up. It works fine but the '37 trans doesn't shift like a modern trans. I also reviewed all the Van Pelt info and rebuilt the trans accordingly. The synchros work but you still need to stop in neutral between shifts momentarily to avoid gear clash. Maybe a '39 trans is better but also more pricey.
 
10 years ago I ran several different syncro transmissions in one of my cars using a B engine and trans. The gears are the same as the V8 and the conversion required most of the adapter parts, less the flywheel housing adapter.. As mentioned above, the early transmissions shift slow and have problems staying in gear due to a poorly designed syncro hub. The "39" gears, which were made until 48, are better. As a result, they are more in demand and are costly, especially with a top loader, as its popular with hot rodders and rare. After all the expense of buying the conversion parts, rebuilding the syncro hub, bearings, spacers and shafts to the correct specs, and the work involved, its not a bad combination, but the Mitchell with a 15 percent higher second gear would have been a quicker and easier conversion and would not have cost that much more. It would also have been a new transmission, not a rebuilt old one. If you do not get the correct space between the second/third slider and the syncro hub on a V8 transmission, it will slip out of gear. Finding the correct spacer and doing all the fitting is very time consuming. You will also have to modify your floorboards and make a metal cover to accommodate a V8 ******. Bottom line: if you run across a great set of gears, find a 40 pickup floor shift top cheap, like the work and have the time, go for it: if you want a syncro trans that just drops in and works like new, get a Mitchell.
 
I have a Mitchell transmission in My Tudor. It REALLY WORKS GOOD! Mitchell has several potions as to gear ratios so you can have a gear set that does not have the wide step between 2nd and high. It really shifts nice (better then a V-8 Transmission) and makes the car much more enjoyable to drive. It is just a bolt in situation as it is all new parts installed in an original case.

If You are going to use a V-8 Transmission, you have to be careful with the gear set you wind up with. The Ford Transmissions had either a 28 or a 29 Tooth cluster. The 28 Tooth was just OK but there was still a big gap between 2nd and high, The 29 Tooth cluster transmission had a VERY BIG gap between 2nd and high. What you really need is a set of Lincoln Gears in a Top Loader Case. which is starting to get VERY pricey.

As stated in a previous post, these transmissions have a bad habit of not staying in gear when things get a little worn. Remember, all this stuff is OLD unless you can find NOS Stuff which is again getting pricey if you can even find it. I think by the time you figure out the real costs of purchasing a GOOD core and properly rebuilding a V-8 Transmission and then buying the adaptors and getting everything installed, you are at the same costs or more then a Mitchell Transmission.

This is my experience and opinion.

Chris
 
I am currently building a 39 transmission for the delivery. Plan to use Cling's kit, but will have to make a different bracket for the early 29 e-brake handle. I have gears from a 46 sideloader I am putting in the case as most of my gears from the 39 transmission are junk. Also building one for dad's coupe, but will have to find the earlier main drive shaft and retainer as this one was converted fur use in a 47 pickup with an open driveshaft. All of the gears inside his look good so far. I still need to check gears from another later sideloader to see what can be used from it. Rod
 

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Lindy and CW are right. I have 2 A's with '39 trans' in them, and a wide bed with a B trans with 26t. Zephyr gears. I am presently switching out a 29t. set for a 28t. set. The 28t. is most common, and I like the ratios. Zephyr's shift quicker because the ratios change less but are like starting in 2nd gear, not good when starting on a hill. Much of the popping out of gear is because the springs in the shifter are weak or broken.
 
flatheadkev said:
I've read through all the excellent info. on Van Pelts site. I see Cling's sells a complete kit with adapter, also Synder lists the individual parts(E-brake mount, wishbone, etc...). I'm not opposed to double clutching, but like the idea of a sycro. ****** and gear ratios that seem to make more sense on todays roadways. Has anybody installed this kit ? Is it a complete bolt on project (no cutting of anything) ?
Click to expand...

Kev,
I put the adaptor 'kit' with a '39 rebuilt trans with zepher gears in my '30 russian B powered roadster. with 3:54 rear(orig gearing) it is a pleasure to drive! Kinda like having overdrive..without that hassle.
The one area where you make a 'small' alteration in the bottom of the 'bell area' of the trans for the ball of the radius rod: drill a bolt hole for attachment of the ball adaptor. Warning on what not to do: trying to save money, ha:(, I made my own 'small' adaptors...not worth the aggravation...buy the whole kit! The proper "double detent" '39 top is a must. guys complain about toploaders slipping out of gear with older 'single detent' setup. and you can purchase an updated , more potent, double detent ball/spring kit to improve upon the old original equipment!
Mabe, if to do over, would consider mitchell or more gears(five speed), but pleased for now. BTW van pelt can supply any parts you may need.
 
Once again this site is awesome.
I have seen some of the other options, the Mitchell w/ 15% higher first and second, the F-150 4speed w/ O.D. and the T5 Borg Warner. They all seem to have their pros and cons. I have only read the praises of those who have installed any of these well thought out and engineered projects. The T5 was the first option I crossed off, mainly for the number of alterations to the car. Also, with the amount of torque the engine generates, coupled with top speed I care to travel in a Model A, I do not see the need for all those gears. The cost is somewhat an issue with either the Mitchell or F-150 options, but for close to the same bucks I would probably go with the Mitchell. I remember seeing these units at Hershey on one of Schwalms tables, he had each variation they make. I like not having to cut the cross member or any other part of the frame!:eek: I do think your right about the final cost and aggravation tax, sometimes the cheap way turns out to be the most expensive.
I was fortunate to score a nice double detent 81A-7222 shifter, with the first generation synchronizer and gearset at Rhinebeck two weeks ago, if I choose this way I'll go with the 28 thooth set. It will depend on what I find at Hershey.
Anyway sorry for being so long winded, thanks for your opinions and ideas.
 
I'm going to back up Pat in Santa Cruz. Both will get you synchro shifting.

If you like building transmissions and have a lot of patience to hunt down multiple transmission cases, switch around all the best gears into one case, (spending lots of time and money doing so) the Clings is a good kit. (A '39 trans with Zepher on ebay just sold for $1224!)

If you don't like building transmissions, but still have a pocket full of money, go with the Mitchell. Less headache up front!
 
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I lucked out with my 39 transmission. My oldest brother gave it to me. He had collected it in the 1970s. He couldn't remember where he got it or how much he paid. Turns out it had a brand new later model gear set. I got it going a few weeks ago. All I had to do was clean out 40 years of dust and buy the adapter setup. Drives like a modern car and reminds me of the 63 Ford I learned to drive on.
 
So far what I have came pretty cheap also, $7 for one transmission, the 39 case for Dad's came out of a $100 47 Ford pu that had a $350 visor on it and some other decent parts. Paid $50 for the donor transmission for gears at a swapmeet. I would call it dumb luck at this point. Rod
 
I've enjoyed my 39 transmission for over 20 years, it has the 28 tooth cluster which give you a higher speed in 1st and 2nd (just like the Mitchel option). It's great because it give you the the higher speed needed while pulling a hill to get out of 2nd and into 3rd. Mitchel makes great stuff but the 39 is closer to my budget.
 
Yes, I have the installation kit along with a '38 trans with all helical gears. The lower ratios in 1st and second are nice but it does shift like a 75 year old transmission not like a modern trans. I have 11k miles on it with no issues I recommend that you try to drive a car with one of these transmissions to see whether you think it is worth the money. I'm not sure I would do it again.
 
A lot of the jumping out of 2nd gear on deceleration is caused by weak detent springs in the shifter, easy to put new ones in.
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
I haven't looked at this kit, but so far every 4 speed top loading ****** I think requires at least a notch to be cut from the center crossmember,:mad: and possibly converting the brakes to hydraulic. I believe the mechanic's technical term for hydraulic brakes is "yuck!" :eek:
Click to expand...
The 4-speed top loading ****** in my pickup required NO cutting of the cross member, and I am still using my mechanical brakes.

(Woops, didn't notice that this was a 6-year old thread. :o)
 
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CarlG said:
The 4-speed top loading ****** in my pickup required NO cutting of the cross member, and I am still using my mechanical brakes.

(Woops, didn't notice that this was a 6-year old thread. :o)
Click to expand...

Yes, I've since learned that it can be done without notching the crossmember and without changing the brakes. My friend did one a couple years ago, and he said he only bent the crossmember lip a little for clearance.
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
Yes, I've since learned that it can be done without notching the crossmember and without changing the brakes. My friend did one a couple years ago, and he said he only bent the crossmember lip a little for clearance.
Click to expand...
I didn't even have to bend the cross member, but my kit came with a truck (AA) bell housing.
 
I bought the Clings transmission adapter kit for my 28 roadster pk.I put in a 35 Ford ****** behind the adapter.Fits like a glove,easy to install.Truck is fun to drive,35 ****** was rebuilt from a famous guy in Otumwa,Iowa. Its fun to drive,and no more double clutching,B.S.
 
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