Update on overheating problem!!!

DeBordEngineMan

DeBordEngineMan

Senior Member
I stated in previous posts I have been having some issues with the 29 Tudor overheating. For starters I installed a new distributor, lower shaft, oil pump drive gear today and set timing spot on and cleaned and flushed radiator and back flushed engine and I still overheated at the same point as I did on my previous "RUN" went the same route as first time I overheated. Started to overheat at the same location, now I checked the radiator flow as people have said I filled it to the top of rim while holding my hand over lower radiator hole, it came rushing out fast and emptied in about 5 seconds and also checked it with the upper hose on and the lower hose off I held my hands over each hole the one at bottom of radiator and bottom of motor and wife filled the complete system it too all came out fast and at full force in about 5 to 7 seconds depending on how I counted and also took waterhose with spray nozzle on and back flushed from bottom pipe on motor and water really gushed out of top neck clean as a pin nothing came out but clear water so I don't think that I have any obstructions unless there is rust built up around cylinders? I think my problem may be that the radiator needs to be rodded out or the fins and insides have separated and not dispursing the heat so I think that by the time I run and try and find a radiator shop to rod it out "right" but then you will still have a old "fixed up" radiator, it is far better just to buy a new radiator but at around 600.00 dollars I hope this is my problem? But in the long run if it is not the problem I would have a new radiator. What do you guys think? I would like to hear your all's opinion what else may be the problem? Also ran the car very light about 30 mph and changed from antifreeze to plain water also drove about a 7 to 8 mile round trip but started to overheat at about 5 miles and had to stop and check and add a 2 liter Pepsi bottle of water to the radiator twice on the whole round trip and the water was boiling very violently. Was really HOT!!! Also could it be the water pump? I think it is working alright as I can see the water move inside the radiator neck. As a side note water was blowing out the new reproduction quail cap I bought as I said before in the other post, it was blowing out between the base and where it turns and closes replaced with o ring and it does not blow out there anymore just goes out overflow tube well sorry for such a long post forgive me I am long winded sometimes hope to hear some of your all"s thoughts on this. Thanks, Robert DeBord
 
If you have an original radiator and the tanks are good just get a new core installed. While you're waiting to have the radiator recored pull the head and rod out all the water jackets in the block. Take small pieces of wire, screw drivers or anything you can get in the water jackets to knock off years of rust and scale.

Install the radiator and run plain water with a can or rust inhibitor, set the timing correctly and post your results.
 
Sure sounds like the water is geting super heated like maybe a blown head gasket or cracked valve seat. Have you checked for bubbles in the water?
Don in SC
 
DeBordEngineMan said:
...I checked the radiator flow as people have said I filled it to the top of rim while holding my hand over lower radiator hole, it came rushing out fast and emptied in about 5 seconds and also checked it with the upper hose on and the lower hose off I held my hands over each hole the one at bottom of radiator and bottom of motor and wife filled the complete system it too all came out fast and at full force in about 5 to 7 seconds..
Click to expand...

Here is the problem with that test;

How much water does an absolutly clean radiator hold and how much does your hold? If only a quart of water comes out in 5 secs does it pass the test as compared with 2 gals in the same 5 secs?
 
Mike the radiator held around 2 1/2 gallons of water that is how much antifreeze I drained out. All the water came out in approximately 5 seconds. Robert
 
DeBordEngineMan said:
Mike the radiator held around 2 1/2 gallons of water that is how much antifreeze I drained out. All the water came out in approximately 5 seconds. Robert
Click to expand...


I think you need to get that a bit stronger. Mine came out in 2.5....

You need to have that sucker boiled our and dipped....then check it.
 
Hi Robert, I'm suspicious. What kind of gas milage are you getting? It should be approximately 18.5 mpg. If your car is running very rich, or, very lean, either of these conditions could lead to overheating. Also, what kind of muffler are you running? Is it up to spec and not clogged? Has someone in your club got a good one they could lend you for a test? (It'll only take you 30 minutes to swap it out...).
Also, what kind of oil are you using? No, I do not want to start up the great oil discussion here, but the oil in a Model A is crucial to engine cooling. If you're running a multi-weight, please try a 40 single weight. If you're running a single weight, please try Shell Rotella 10-50 or similar. From your description, I doubt your problem is actually in your cooling system... Good Luck!
 
Chris in CT my car has a new muffler and tailpipe I use Rotella strait 30 as far as gas mileage goes I have not got to drive it no more than maybe 20 to 30 miles total on short trips up and down the road overheated on the two longest trips of about 7 to 8 miles each so I don't know about gas mileage? And my fuel setting I open up the mixer to where the car runs good and will take fuel and not sputter from a lack of fuel or air (I have and run Hit and Miss gas engines with needle valve settings so I am use to setting the carburetor like this car has) maybe open a half a turn I have a new rebuilt Zenith that was rebuilt by a top Model A man that does carbs so I know the carburetor is right but I maybe not setting it right? I still think it is in my cooling system but don't know for sure. Robert
 
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i had an overheating problem with mine for the longest time timed it and timed over and over still over heating i got a new radiator and still overheated so i thought maybe bad water pump or blown head gasket i pulled the upper water neck to check if the fins fit good into the head and they did i pulled the head and i had a dead cylender due to a dirty spark plug connector i cleaned them all up and put it back together and started and i just had to adjust the carb and the car runs great now and has plenty of pep and no more overheating hope this helped jim
 
Water/coolant "does not blow out there anymore just goes out overflow tube."

Maybe your not over heating at all but have not allowed the radiator to 'seek it's own level yet'. When your driving along and the timing and advance is perfect, remember a speed of 35 mph to 40 mph will not require full advance like 60 mph. And she's peeing coolant, that's Ok. I don't worry till she makes steam from the bottom of the overflow tube under the chassis. And that's not even a big deal. Just pull over and add some coolant while she's running from the gallon milk jug you always carry. Right skip?
Remember; No more than 2-1/2 gallon in the combination of block and radiator.

So have you made your water depth stick yet?
Waterstick.jpg


skip.
 
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:cool:Robert..........you have answered the question. I speak from experiencing the same stuff with my own car. It sounds as though your tube to fin contact is gone. Don't waste anymore time on that stupid three second drain test. Take the suggested rubber ball and give it your dog. LOL. You may have shared this before so forgive me BUT, is there a baffle in the radiator? Is your overflow tube bent too far forward causing a siphoning effect?Are you running a license plate on the headlight bar? And one I think Brent addressed.....are your breaks set too tight. Here's a freebie Buddy. Model A s have a wonderful built in feature called thermo siphon cooling. In fact many claim you dont even need the water pump. Find a quiet stretch of road several miles long. Take off and at NO time drive over 30 mph.
Keep the car at 29mph. Drive your pants off at that speed. If nothing happends and everything looks good speed up to 35 mph and see what happends. If she starts pukin odds are your radiator needs a recor or replaced. Trust me as I went through this witch hunt for a year. I finally got my head out of my rectal storage facility and ordered up a Brassworks rad and friend I never looked back.
 
I think the boys are right in saying you have a radiator problem.. If there is a good radiator shop in your area, then, a $100 cleaning or $300 re-core beats $600 for a new one.. While the radiator is out, its easy to take a good look at the water pump..
 
Tacoma Bob my radiator does have the baffle in place as far as the overflow tube I don't know how far forward is to much mine sits to the right side of the car kinda angled to the back I do not run a plate on the front I also run engine pans which are suppose to help in cooling and also a 4 blade fan and my brakes are not set up to much as stated in another post my brake light was staying on after I released pedal but I think it was just the newness of all the brake components as it releases the switch OK now so I still think that the radiator is not doing its job as it should. As for cleaning out the radiator I have already taken it to a local shop and had a couple of holes fixed and the neck had almost been twisted off at some point the man would not rod it out said it would probably leak worse on a old radiator or he just didn't want to mess with it with it being so old really don't know so he fixed the holes and the neck, Pressure tested it to I think 4psi. and said he just "cleaned" it out and said it was not in the best of shape anyway best case it would maybe last for awhile and that was 100.00 with time and fuel to take and pickup. He also charged 500.00 to recore using my tanks for that price I can buy a new one from Brassworks and all components would be new also not very many shops around, took it to 3 shops before I got this guy to work on this radiator so I think a new radiator is in the near future and a new water pump just in case for the Tudor just hope this takes care of the problem. By the way is there any test that I can do to check the water pump to see if it is working sufficiently I can see some movement looking down in radiator,Thanks Robert DeBord
 
Most model A overheating seems to be caused by the radiator. If the water pump turns it is probably OK.If it was me I would buy a new Brassworks rather than trying to fix worn out radiator parts ,not knowing what you would end up with.
 
Sounds like you're set on buying a new radiator. Instead, I'd buy the core from Bergbower in Illinois. He makes excellent cores that look original for 28 and 29. His son just took over the operation and I think he may also do 30 and 31's now.

If you are replacing the old core, you have nothing to loose by removing the bottom tank and trying to rod it out yourself. Use a small flame tip and heat a small area of the soldered seam. As soon as the solder melts use compressed air to blow it away. Keep working around the tank until all the seam is unsoldered, then pry the tank off. You learn by doing, and if the shops want too much, or won't do it, you can have a cheap lesson.
 
I had an overheating problem and the rad would still dump its full capacity in seconds flat. Sammy in sunny AZ sent me a hand held infra red "gun",it was a revelation .The centre third of the rad was blocked solid ,all the flow going down the outer tubes mostly out of the fan area which also did not help. Before you go further buy one of these gizmos !!! The one I have is an Extech IR250 and can be set to Fahrenheit or Celsius . You can also check how hot the dog is or anything else you care to point it at.

John in wet cool night England.
 
It might be helpful to obtain temperature readings with an infrared thermometer. These divices are inexpensive and accurate enough for such purposes.

Here is one example.
 
After removing the head and cleaning out about enough rust from the water jackets to fill an 8 oz coffee cup, backflushing a similar amount of rust out out of the radiator and shaking huge pieces of rust out of the head, I still was running in the 190 degree range. I spent hours working on the radiator with everything from Drano to Evaporust. This was after I had a radiator shop "boil" it out. 190 was too high for me, so I finally sprung the $600 for a new radiator from Brattons. I ordered it Monday pm from Tam's and Tuesday night I had it installed. Couldn't get the temp above 135 no matter what I did. Had to put a 165 degree thermostat in the upper hose just to warm up the engine. Wished I had sprung the $600 two months earlier. Would have saved me days of wasted effort. Buy a new radiator from BRATTONS. It even has hood rests!
 
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