unusable wheels?

marty in Ohio

marty in Ohio

Well-known member
A Model A friend and Ford Barner took his five wheels to a powder coater to have them done. The powder coater said only two wheels were good, two were marginal and one could not be used. I questioned how he knew this before he blasted them. I was told that the powder coater weighed them. How bad is a wheel, in weight, before it can't be used? My fried has been driving on these wheels for years.
Marty
 
Most of the time you can just look at a wheel and till if its junk.1. lots of rust 2. cracks
3. lug nut holes 4. the wheel has run on a flat tire. 5. bent or broken spokes 6. bent wheel.
anyone how does a lot of wheels knows by first look. ask your guy what he found.
 
Find someone who knows what to look for in wheel condition. He can help you find some replacements. You can pickup decent wheels needing blasting and coating for $25. They are plentiful
 
RonC said:
Find someone who knows what to look for in wheel condition. He can help you find some replacements. You can pickup decent wheels needing blasting and coating for $25. They are plentiful
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You are right on the money. I just bought 5 that were blasted, primed and checked for trueness for $125 dollars. Wayne[/B
 
If they were 21 inch wheels, weighing them would tell how much rust has deteriorated the inside of the rolled section. I have had some that were so rusty inside that one could hear the rust moving when rotating the wheel.
 
We kicked this discussion around a bit among our " A Team" and the feeling is that a 19 inch wheel should weigh between 19 and 21 pounds. Does this seem reasonable? My original question remains, how light can a wheel be, and still be good to go?
Marty
 
Could this analysis be used to help a few common sense Model A owners to try to structurally analyze a few of their Model A wheels?

1. To show Model A spoke wheel strength, there was a photo years ago used in a Ford Model A advertisement showing a Model A suspended vertically and being held up from a steel frame, and suspended by one (1) vertical Ford wheel spoke placed in tension.

2. Seems as though if one (1) spoke can whole up the entire weight of a Model A in suspension, four (4) spokes from all four (4) wheels should be able to carry the weight of four (4) Model A's; or,

3. The spoke on one (1) wheel only carries 1/4 of the entire weight of a Model A.

4. Then, after looking at a Model A wheel with multiple spokes, some long, some short, can one assume at least two (2) spokes are in tension at all times, where two (2) spokes can carry the entire weight of two (2) Model A's ...... plus (2) top spokes are in tension, and (2) bottom wheel spokes are in compression all tied with multiple spokes to a perimeter steel rim.

5. Similarly, if a chicken can only lay one (1) egg per day, and a man picks a dozen eggs a day, and if all of his chickens lay one egg per day, is there a minimum number of chickens he has to have, bearing in mind that a chicken leg is not as strong as a steel Model A spoke ............... or do we weigh the eggs or the weight chickens?

Maybe something to think about.
 
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2manycars said:
If they were 21 inch wheels, weighing them would tell how much rust has deteriorated the inside of the rolled section. I have had some that were so rusty inside that one could hear the rust moving when rotating the wheel.
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I think a lot of 21" wheels are like that. One of the manuals describes a procedure for drilling small holes in the rolled section, injecting epoxy resin, and then rolling them around. I did this with a couple of mine and it seems to have worked. No more noise. I got a large syringe from a veterinary supply house, but it's been several years so I don't recall exactly where I got the resin that I injected into the wheel!
 
I've had used wheels that looked good at the hub, spokes, and rims but were buckled and i didn't realise until I'd bought them painted them, and fitted them. Caveat emptor!
 
Hope this helps, pic one is a later 21" rim with very little rust and you can't hear anything moving in the rim
ca29832d35a55f3e5da6f8385fe17e61.jpg


She weighed in at 21.85lbs

Rim two is my spare AR rim, so keep in mind the Center flange is thinner!! But there is a lot of rust in the rolled edge and I have drilled it so I can tap the edge with a plastic hammer and shake it out 20 min here and there and it came in at 19.47lbs.
1e5d0ddde798012402a13301809e99a4.jpg


I do have another 21" later rim but it'll be tomorrow before I have time to go get it and weigh it. The AR rim was the worst of the five I have but I do plan on using it as the spare.

Not sure tho if weight is a measure of how good or bad a wheel is. If you're worried about the thickness of the rim bead, just drill it in a couple places and see how thick it is, then weld up the hole pre coating them.



Weighed the last later 21" wheel this morning, it came in at 20.92 lbs and its highly rusted on one side, and there is no paint
 
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When I got my 1930 Model A 58 years ago, it had (4) mounted tires on spoke wheels and came with (11) spare tires mounted on wheels, with mixed 19" and 21" wheels.

Two of the 21" wheels on the car had a couple of spokes broken .... but, they were wrapped around a adjacent spokes.

Former owner said theses 21" wheels were still strong ....... I never knew the difference as a teenager ..... so I guess the wheel weight did not change with wrapped spokes ......... and in the former owner's structural assessment .... just get in and drive.
 
I would think weighing wheels is not the way to determine its road worthiness. Inspection as jw hash suggested is the way. There were 3 different manufactures of wheels with different spoke widths and I assume different number of spokes. The early are different from all the others, as mentioned above. Just my opinion !
 
Iron oxide is heavier than the iron that it formed from, due to the weight of the oxygen that combined with it to format rust. Hydrated iron oxide is even heavier.
So rust that did not flake off will make the wheel heavier not lighter.
The rust captured inside the hollow on 21 inch rims will spoil the weighing test I imagine.
SAJ in NZ
 
on the 30-31 Kelsey Hayes wheels, the outer spokes are 1/4" longer then the Hamilton wheels, there for they are heavier then the Hamilton wheels. the condition of the wheels is way more important then how much they weigh,
 
Our "A team" our the monthly breakfast this morning and this topic was kicked around. The general feeling was, as most of you suggested, look at the wheel and see if it looks O.K. to use. Nobody really knew how little a wheel could weigh before it was considered unusable. We think the powder coater was trying to "cover his butt" and not accept any liability if he worked on a part that may later fail.
Marty
 
I'm fortunate in that my neighbor has as Snap On wheel balancing machine that I can use. I figure that if you buy 12 wheels, chances are four will be usable. I check runout and roundness. Checking balance is best done after tires are mounted.
 
I have been around A's for over 40 years and haven't seen any wheels fail but I guess it has happened, does anyone have any wheel failure experiences?
 
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