Unfinished hardware preservation

Great Lakes Greg

Well-known member
I am doing a chassis up for touring class and want to try to stick to the Standards as much as I can. There are a lot of unfinished lock washers, castle nuts, cotter pins, and the like. Do you show guys clear coat over the top to hold off the rust? I am actually leaning toward painting the hardware all black like everything else. Touring class rules are looser than the all-out show rules so the details to this extent are not as critical, but correct is my goal if it is able to hold up to touring duty.
 
I've been spraying semi-gloss clear on unfinished hardware. It doesn't seem to keep rust away as well as black, but I also like to wipe these parts with an oil soaked rag once in a while to help stave off rust.

Gloss leaves a shine on the hardware, but when using semi-gloss I have to mark the hardware, or I don't know if it's been sprayed yet.
 
The standards say any unfinished bolt, nut, etc. can be painted black.. Cotter keys, go with stainless.. looks a lot better...
 
For fine point judging some glass bead the stainless steel cotter pins to look like cad. For unfinished nuts,bolts and lockwashers i used EASTWOOD Detail Gray paint in a spray can... As paint can states: Original color of machined steel and protects from corrosion. Hardware must be clean of grease and all. I metal prep all parts EXCEPT LOCKWASHERS..I wire brush them well on a wire wheel on a drill . HELLO Fred....
 
I found some fuel proof satin clear spray at a model airplane store several yrs ago, but I'm not sure if they make it anymore. It's called Black Baron...the manufacturer is Coverite who also made the heat-shrink wing covering. After experimenting with various clear lacquers and wood preservatives this stuff seemed the least obvious (pictured below)
Also...I found that beadblasted bolts looked too bright and....well....beadblasted.
I'll still beadblast if they're rusty, but then soak them in phosphoric acid for a few minutes and work them with a small stainless brush and rinse off in hot water and blow dry to get an even grayish appearance. You could experiment with vinegar even. Once coated with a satin clear they look raw & original in my opinion. I never liked the fake cast metal spray from eastwood & such places.
It's way overused at the show & shines and I can pick it out from 6 feet away.
In reality, the Model A must have had rusty hardware a few weeks after hitting the streets. I often wonder...what about leaving them raw & have a little rust?
....I can see it now in the J. Standards... "all unfinished hardware must show obvious signs of corrosion" ;)
 

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I am doing a chassis up for touring class and want to try to stick to the Standards as much as I can. There are a lot of unfinished lock washers, castle nuts, cotter pins, and the like. Do you show guys clear coat over the top to hold off the rust? I am actually leaning toward painting the hardware all black like everything else. Touring class rules are looser than the all-out show rules so the details to this extent are not as critical, but correct is my goal if it is able to hold up to touring duty.

Ironically I have been hearing this statement quite a bit lately and am curious why people are choosing that direction for competition. Greg, I read your last sentance above and totally understand your mindset but is that the only reason? (I understand if you do not feel comfortable saying publicly why you are choosing the direction?)

.
 
Maybe Fine point judging got to be just that "TO" fine point . To much paint on a rivet head, to much or to little on finish frame black and parts,,, parts that are called for and just not out there anymore,[Hoses, n.o.s. good wires]and then we have top material,,,The BEST of the BEST when it comes to tops and upholstery for 40 years and still NOT good enough??? He used the closest and only material out there and still no good.. You know people get tired of this after awhile and get fed up. Know a few. For some the challenge and cost in not worth it anymore.... In other words its not FUN...Does that answer your question Brent?:D
 
Brent, I figure anything doing is worth doing a right as I can get it within my abilities. I don't care if the correct police tear the car down, but on the other hand if I do half a job on something, nobody else will know, but I will. I'll feel like I'm cheating the car and myself. On the other hand I am also not going to scour the country for N.O.S. parts and break the bank on a $50 wire clip or other such widget. That just seems silly. I am not afraid to drive in the rain, nor do I steer clear of a dirt road. Everything deteriorates eventually, but I would like to hold it off as long as I can.
Thanks for your opinions. I value everybodys input on my sometimes trivial musings, and take away more knowledge every time.
 
I am doing a chassis up for touring class and want to try to stick to the Standards as much as I can. There are a lot of unfinished lock washers, castle nuts, cotter pins, and the like. Do you show guys clear coat over the top to hold off the rust? I am actually leaning toward painting the hardware all black like everything else. Touring class rules are looser than the all-out show rules so the details to this extent are not as critical, but correct is my goal if it is able to hold up to touring duty.



Well, we have only heard from one (1) "show guy" (that I know of here)...what about the rest of you "show guys"? What is your secret for unfinished parts?

Pluck
 
Did some test last year and here is what i came up with, hope this helps a bit also Greg
 

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Greg, often times I think it is a balances and perception. For example, which has more credibility in your eyes, --scoring 500 points in Touring Class or 400 points in Fine Point with your car?

While I too am of the opinion that some of Fine Point Judges are apparently getting too 'anal' at times, I was at the last Judging Stds Meeting where Peter was not, and so I was privy to understanding some circumstances that happened at F/L. The "Correct Police" as you referred to them might make a mistake or so during the process but you need to understand that it does not take NOS parts to be able to win a MARC of Excellence in F/P Judging.

The biggest thing that I see that makes the Touring Class process fairer in perception is that their sheet tells the Judge what to look for --and what point value is to be given or taken away. My hope is that you will go ahead and build your car as if you are gonna compete in F/P competition.
 
Mr. Maron: what did you use for the 'completed' bolt/nut on the far left of your photo. looks nice! thanks for the comparisons .. saved me some $$
 
IMO during a vehicle or engine restoration, a person should glass bead (peenex) all bolt heads and fasteners that should be black, and obtain advice from your local gunsmith for "Blueing" of the parts. A nice original looking dark black can be obtained.

A friend of mine came up with another cheap solution that will fool the best, and that is to use a "permanent" fine point felt marker to touch-up bolts and other fasteners that become marred during assembly.
 
OK Steve, I'll weigh in.

Greg,
I do a process very similar to what Craig Lewis showed in his post. I too, found that beadblasted hardware was just too "bright," and had to be dulled down to look like an unfinished item. There's lots of ways to do this, and Craig's process works very well. You just don't want the metal to look have a lot of shine or be too bright.
I tried many different coatings in many different shades, including Eastwoods, but didn't like any compared to using satin clears over properly prepared fasteners. I've used various brands of satin clear coats, so I don't really have one specific brand to recommend.
Your wrenches will take the coating off of the corners of fasteners no matter what kind of coating you use, so be prepared for lots of touching up later or you will have some funny looking nuts and bolt heads. You can also use plastic over the heads to minimize the problem. That works very well for me, especially on the cad plated fasteners. Now, if you choose to go the black route, that won't cause you a problem according to the Standards, but, you will have the same problems with chipping the black paint off those fasteners just as you would if they were finished with a satin clear. Maybe more problems, as the black paint is usually a bit thicker.

Greg, I strongly share Brent's viewpoint about building and showing. The cars Brent's shop built and showed at the last MARC meet proved a person doesn't need a boatload of money or lottery luck on finding new old stock parts to bring home a great score in Blue Ribbon. And, you are so right that the Touring Class rules are "looser" (Your words). Proof of that is the fact that two of the four 500 point cars have whitewalls. (JS are explicit in that whitewalls incur a 2 point deduction - Page 22-2). My point is that I believe a person will derive a LOT more pride out of a 400+ point Blue Ribbon award than any Touring Class award, simply based on the "loose" judging in Touring. That's my opinion (Shared by many) and everyone is welcome to disagree.

Tom's input about an occasional wipe with an oily rag is good, especially for people living in areas with a lot of humidity. Some people use a little Gibbs, or WD-40, many choices, to each his own. I know Glenn in Camino does something like this, and you should see the undercarriages of his 30 and 40 year old restorations!

And Fred's comment about using stainless cotters is great. Steel cotters will rust after a while and then you've got the same problem as the rusty nuts and bolts. They start rusting very quickly right where the pliers grabbed them. Those stainless cotters are a lot tougher to bend into shape, but worth the effort. You can dull down the stainless shine a little by lightly beadblasting. Again, my opinion based on my experiences.

Peter,
Your second posting is just your same old sour grapes based on your personal issues with the MARC and MAFCA Judging Standards and your disagreements over how judging is performed. This was all hashed out earlier this summer until you beat it to death. Your second post did nothing to help Great Lakes Greg or anyone else, regarding the original question about finishing fasteners.

Greg,
Your "musings" as you put it, are not trivial at all. Whether Blue Ribbon or Tour, we all spend a lot of time on the fasteners during our restorations. Your question and comment about the direction you're going with your restoration is something that many on this board have gone through, some multiple times. So, your "musings" apply to many, which when the responses are received, benefit many. And, you said it best in your follow-up post, "...if I do half a job on something, nobody else will know, but I will. I'll feel like I'm cheating the car and myself." So go do it right and please yourself first!

Dave Lopes
 
A friend of mine came up with another cheap solution that will fool the best, and that is to use a "permanent" fine point felt marker to touch-up bolts and other fasteners that become marred during assembly.

What does your friend use on lock washers and or valve chamber bolts that are supposed to be unfinished?


So this really begs the question on just how much you will lose if the fasteners are painted some form of Black in lieu of the prescribed unfinished. In my opinion, it kinda boils down to this. Area 1, Engine Compartment has a total of 40 points ("expanded level" of 400 points) on the F/P Judging Sheet. Out of those 40 points there are four categories; Fuel Sys., Firewall, Engine, and Engine Mounts, Pans, & Controls. Each of those categories are given 10 points (100 points expanded). In the expanded view, here is how the break-down is made along with the maximum points for each sub-category:

(Item followed by Points)
Block; color, correct date & numbers 10
Cylinder Head 10
Oil Breather Pipe & Cap 10
Dip Stick 5
Engine Gaskets, Nuts/Bolts/Washers/etc. 20
Intake Manifold 10
Oil Return Pipe, Valve cover, Fasteners, gaskets 10
Timing Pin & Cover 5
Crankshaft Pulley 5
Flywheel Housing Shims 5
Oil Pan & Drain Plug 10

If you look at it, the Engine Gaskets, Nuts/Bolts/Washers/etc. line is worth 20 points expanded, --or about 2 points total for everything (Gaskets too). Valve Cover & related is worth about 10 points expanded, --or about 1 point.

In reality if they got totally "rude" with their points deductions, the maximum they could take off would be about 3 points in the Engine Compartment area for painting your bolts with Black paint or using a Sharpie felt tip marker on them. If your vehicle had all original, correctly restored fasteners throughout and you were able to score 425 points, then in reality if you painted your engine fasteners, you should score no less than 422 overall. Is this how everyone else is seeing it??

,
 
Mr. Maron: what did you use for the 'completed' bolt/nut on the far left of your photo. looks nice! thanks for the comparisons .. saved me some $$

Charles i used the Eastwood manifold Grey on that completed nut and bolt and i used it straight with no other color or dilution. Good Luck and hope i helped
:D
 
Having not attended a major meet/convention(yet, that is), maybe this topic gets covered, but would make an interesting and informative 'how-to' seminar.
 
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