Two-piece brake cross shaft questions.

criswellnk

criswellnk

Senior Member
Have there been any articles, or anything written about the rebuilding/restoration of the components for the early two-piece cross shaft brake system?

Before starting to work on this part of the project I would just like to know if there is anything that someone may have written to reference? If I don't have to re-invent the wheel from scratch, that would be helpful.

My biggest concerns are the actual cross shafts themselves and the "dogbone" (sorry, I don't remember the correct name or part number right now) that fits between them. The cross shafts have the wear points from the mounting brackets for the frame rails (build-up through welding and dress down). The sockets where the "dogbone" fits in are oblonged and worn well out-of-round. I have a couple of ideas on how to fix this point, but would like to know what others may have done, and how their results were.

The "dogbone" itself, everyone that have come across seems to be worse, or just as bad as the last one that I have found. Does anyone have a good set of dimensions to start from, or should I just get the print and start from there?

Also, the ball on the end of the cross shaft that fits into the socket on the U-joint housing, of the ones that I have none of them seem to be truly worn. Are there any concerns to be aware of with these (needing new springs not withstanding)?

Thanks for your time and help, and any ideas.
 
Chris,

Here are all the articles that have been written about the subject:

A-2485/2486: Brake Cross Shaft Assembly R.H./L.H.
“Emily A-241”: MAN/35/5/9 (1988)

A-2485-D, ER: Brake Cross Shaft Assembly
“The One-Piece Brake Cross Shaft”: MAN/16/6/14-15 (1969)**2
“TIP…Lubricates Brake Cross Shaft”: MAN/20/4/13 (1973)
“Restoring the Model A Brake Cross Shaft”: MAN/52/2/18-21 (2005)
“Restoring the Model A Brake Cross Shaft”: TR/37/1/14-17 (1992)*5
“Restoring the Model A Brake Cross Shaft…(Revisited)”: TR/50/1/40-43 (2005)*8
“The Evolution of The Model A Ford Frame Assembly”: TR/52/1/12-17 (2007)


You can also go to my website and view all the other components about specific parts and the articles and just where to find those restoration articles.

They are all listed under the Parts and Articles Index.

If someone does not have the drawing of the dogbone, best bet is to get a parts drawing from the Ford Archives and machine one out for your self...not sure if any of the parts houses carry this part.

Pluck
 
Steve,

Thanks for the information the different articles. The only one that I do not have is the first one that you had mentioned, the 1988 Model A News, Volume 35, Issue 5, I will have to locate a copy of this one or at the very least the article itself.

As far as the dogbone is concerned, I am certain that a new one will have to be made and I will need to get a copy of the print for it. As for the sockets that the dogbone fits into, the idea (so far) is to counterbore them and install a sleeve to bring them back to the correct size.

The one quirk that I have run into on the cross shafts that I have is that one set of holes for the clevis pin for the brake rods is off center. It is just one set of holes per complete set of cross shafts. The holes for one of the clevis pins was machined off center, very close to the outside edge of the forged boss on the arm/yoke. And it is not that they are just worn, they are truly off. One complete two piece set-up that I have (July 1928, Canadian car) does not have any centers where it would have been machined, on either cross shaft or on the dogbone. and this is the best set that I have. Thanks again for the help, and if anybody has any more info please let me know.
 
Steve,

I think there were about 3 different styles of these types of early 2-peice brake cross-shafts..

Hopefully some of the early guys will chime in and give you some more advice to help you out.

I do not think the dogbone changed any but could be wrong.

Were you able to check out the other parts and there restoration articles pertaining to the brake system?

Pluck
 
criswellnk, Steve,

I have the same problem as above but no books. To start with the dog bone, which I
think is some were between 4130 an 4340 Rockwells between 30 an 40 on the " c "
scale. I'm going to weld it up( all 3 ) machine and draw it back.
Second, the socket ends, that the D/B goes into( I have the third style),I think is too
thin to sleeve. I'm thinking of welding it up and boring with an end mill, in a vertical
mill.
Third, if the ball sockets are bad, at the U/J, I would be looking for another set up.

Dudley
 
You might want to contact Ron Rude, he posts here quite often. He has done a lot of research on the early braking system. But, there was a solid one piece cross shaft made by Ford to replace the one you are working on. It give much better braking than the one you are trying to pull together. I used the style you are working on for years and had a couple of failures and that made me a convert.
 
John LaVoy,

Was your comment for criswellnk or for me? I'm restoring my car to original and not
deviating from what it was.

Dudley
 
Steve,

I don't think that the dogbone changed either over the run of the two-piece system, but will check to make sure of that, if I can get the print. For the most part the articles that you had referenced in your index are about rebuilding/repair of the one-piece cross shaft, I haven't had time yet to read through the last one you had mentioned, The Restore, 2007. But, as I had said I need to find a copy of the 1988 Model A News, that one looks promising, especially with the R.H./L.H. annotation.

John & Dudley,

I want to keep the car as original. It was changed over from the two-piece set-up to the one-piece somewhere down the line. There are definitly more "wear" points to consider with the two-piece set-up over the one-piece, a little slop/play in any or all of the points could easily add up to some fairly sketchy braking. Look at how much worn bushings and mounting brackets affect the one-piece cross shaft system. With the two-piece system, worn mounting brackets, holes for the clevis pins, cross shafts (both ends ball end and frame mount), sockets for the dogbone, the dogbone, bushings and pins in the equalizer beam, springs in the ball sockets. I haven't found a U-joint housing for this system that wasn't torqued out of shape, usually the top half of the socket is bent up.

It sounds as though there is definitly some room for an article on the repair and restoration of the two-piece cross shaft braking system. Particularly the items and parts between the brake pedal and the actual brake rods. Thanks again for the help.
 
Dudley and Cris,

Are your cross shafts (1) single eye over clevis or (2) clevis over clevis ?

I have a couple of complete U-joint covers, including transmission bearing retainer, that have unequal hole spacing and a couple of cross shafts sets that are clevis over clevis. Also a dog bone that needs to also be built up due to wear at the center ball.

Let me know if I can be of any help or answer any questions.

Ron Rude
 
Ron,

The ones that I have are the clevis over clevis style.

As far as the dogbone goes, either way I choose to go, I am going to see if I can get the print for that part (as well as the cross shaft). I will either build them up through welding and machine them down to the dimensions from the print, or just make a new one (usually easier said than done).

The cross shafts are my big question, more to the point, the actual sockets that the ends of the dogbone fits into. The wear points from the mounting brackets where the cross shaft would mount to the frame would be easy enough to build up through welding then turn down. But any ways/ideas that anyone has done/had previously to rebuild the cross shafts, or any new ideas to rebuild these are very welcomed.

I have a couple of broken cross shafts that I can try/experiment on to see what will work the best, but right now I guess I am just fishing for ideas. As Dudley had said, welding up the socket then boring it out with a vertical mill, this is one way to go and try. Seeing if the socket can be sleeved is another. I am hopeful that someone out there has rebuilt these components before and will share what they have done.
 
The part I was talking about is an "original" Ford conversion that was made because the floating system was illegal in several states. So using it is an acceptable solution to the problem and works better than the system you have.
 
Cris and Dudley,

I was fortunate that my Lt. Delivery only had a little over 25,000 miles. The steering arm balls were still round and the floating system was also like new so it was not necessary to do any rebuilt. It even had all the original shocks, arms and links. The frame and engine match A1276.

I also have a pair of rear radius rods, a full set of backing plates however they are for the early system that do not have emergency brake rods, they have the rienforcing ribs. Also have a couple of emergency brake cross shafts and the mounting brackets.

I assume your cars have 4 brake rods and 2 emergency brake rods ?

I'm not trying to sell you anything, would rather see someone who has a need get these parts; besides I'm 82 and will not be doing any more restorations.

Ron Rude
 
It seems my model "A" had three shafts for the brake cross shaft. I never could get it to work right and it would get bound up and I would have no brakes but a hard pedal. The thing was scary. I called Bert's and Steve sent me the newer design with only one rod. The price did not seem too bad and I feel a lot safer. The newer design bolted right in place I think, I was easy anyway.

The three piece had cup and ball joints and there was a lot of stuff that could go wrong-too many moving pieces.
 
Properly set up, the floating brake system works just fine. Its no doubt the one piece brake cross shaft is easier to adjust, however, there are a lot of A's out there with the later system and frankly I wouldn't want them behind me having to make an emergency stop !!!!!! Ford changed the system because several states passed laws that cars sold in their state a/o 1/1/28 had to have a seperate emergency brake system. None of the western states had this kind of law so the floating brake systems with 4 brake rods only were sent to assembly plants where they could be used.

Again, properly set up the floating brake systems are just as safe as the later systems. This is just my opinion and no doubt others will disagee.

Keep good tires and good brakes on your A and enjoy driving them !!!

Ron
 
If you make a new dogbone, I would use a high strength steel. When you make the final adjustment on your assembly, be careful not to allow "overcamming". This is where the main cam can go past the part it pushes on when the pedal is pushed real hard. Test everything when finished with a maximum pressure on your brake pedal to be certain that everything stays in place.
 
The next thing to do is to see if I can get the prints for the parts that I need to work on. If anyone that has a January 1928 parts list could please chime in and confirm for me that I have the correct numbers for the parts listed below, that would be very helpful:

A-2471 Equalizer Beam
A-2473 Pin
A-2485 Cross shaft Left and Right A-2485 & 86 (?)

I don't know what the proper name and number is for the "dogbone"

Thanks again to everyone that has posted, any help is appreciated
 
No A-2471 part listed.
A-2470 Brake equalizer operating shaft and bushing assembly.
A-2485 Brake cross shaft assembly R.H.
A-2486 Brake cross shaft assembly L.H
A-2473 Brake equalizer operating shaft pin
A-2480 Brake equalizer beam (dogbone)
 
My October 1, 1928 Parts Price List says...

A-2470 Brake Equalizer Operating Shaft abd Bushubg Assembly
A-2471 Not listed
A-2473 Brake Equalizer Operating Shaft Pin
A-2480 Brake Equalizer Beam (Dogbone)
A-2485 A, B and C Brake Cross Shaft Assembly RH
A-2486 A, B and C Brake Cross Shaft Assembly LH
(Not sure which you have A, B or C)

Pluck
 
Thanks for the proper names and numbers, much appreciated as always. I have ordered a copy of the Parts Price List for myself, with any luck it will be here soon.

For the A-2485/86 cross shafts, I do not know what the differences would be between the "B" and the "C" suffix. I would think that the "A" suffix was for the cross shaft with the single eye instead of the latter clevis.

The A-2470 number for the operating shaft and bushing assembly, I would guess that is the shaft with the bushings installed (an assembly)? This picture is of one of the Equalizer Operating Shafts that I have.

IMG_0575.jpg


Would the A-2471 number just have been used as a factory number?
 
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