tuning again

Ol' Ron

Ol' Ron

Well-known member
Back a hundred years ago the tuning of an engine was just making it run. 20 years later they put a lever on the steering wheel to advance the spark once they got it running. During the 30 they discovered that the ignition sydtem needed to be goverened by the load, adding a machanical advance and vacuum retard in the case of the Flathead. This along with the vacuum brake provided a well tuned engine and it still works quite well today. by the 90's, engine management systems were beginning to show up and have continued to improve the power and economy of our engines. This was an evloution that took a hundred years.

Now Hot Rodders have capitalized on the advancement in engine tuning, but only in the developing of more Horsepower. Now it's time to cash in on the economy bandwagon. My friend Richard has taken this to heart, and with his own money has buit several pieces of test equipment to monitor the FLATHEAD engine in operation. The two photos show one of them. It includes an AF meter a vacuum gauge and a video monitor that displays the timing of the engine as it runs through it's paces. This is all recorded on a video camera for later observations.

I commend him on his resourcefulness, Someone else that provides a service is Jim of Bubbas ignition service, your lucky to have someone like him around to do this because the aftermarket doesn't really help very much and is very expensive for us old timers. I'm getting old and working on this has been one of my greatest joys.
 

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Ron,
The search for more power and better mpg is on going.....Jim Lindner,,
Richard in sunny Florida, the one and only JWL , Mac Van Pelt and you Ron among
others write the hands on text books that we all 'read'.
Gracias Amigo,
Charlie ny
 
So far 118 people have read this and I hope they have learned something about what I and otheres are trying to do. Charlie, you understand this and also contribute like many others. I converted my first GM dist back in the 70's because I saw one converted by some body else. I never used a vacuum canister until I built an engine for a fellow dowm in Ct. He wanted the canister in his dist for better milage. He then sent the dist out for conversion to electronic. That was over 10 years ago and I never built on with out one since. Before the adjustable ones I used a positive stop. Then Richard came along and with his help we've progressed to this point. All this has to work with the Carburetoe jetting and the power valve. Time will tell.
 
Ron, I'm a newbie here and a newbie to this era of automobile. But I love learning about this stuff and I'm thankful that you and others with this knowledge share it so willingly. That thing is cool. Thanks for posting.:)
 
Ron thanks to gentlemen like You Richard and others this forum is a great help to Flathead Hobbyists all over the world! Thanks for the time and effort we all appreciate the knowledge passed on by all of you.
Tony
 
Ol' Ron said:
My friend Richard has taken this to heart, and with his own money has buit several pieces of test equipment to monitor the FLATHEAD engine in operation. The two photos show one of them. It includes an AF meter a vacuum gauge and a video monitor that displays the timing of the engine as it runs through it's paces. This is all recorded on a video camera for later observations.
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Here's the latest version of my "Road Rig." This one also has an A/F monitor and an enclosure to keep out daytime glare so the video tape is clearer.

The timing monitor is fed by a tiny camera attached to the timing cover and focused on the pointer and the degree strip. It works quite well so we can see the actual advance in real time and in relation to rpm and vacuum.
 

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Richard ,

I would like to see a little video clip of the box in action driving down the road etc showing a/f ratio, manifold vacuum , rpm , road speed etc.....

Make a great psot for the Barn guys etc....
 
very cool, Ron, Richard and others.....many thanks for sharing and would like to see the video and try to figure out what it all means....lol...Mike
 
Another thing...careful exploration of timing and mixture is cheap, fairly easy, and you can back right out of your mistakes and start over.
Going from a bad advance curve to a good one is a revelation...a lot more result than you are likely to get screwing on finned aluminum in many cases.
 
BUBBAS IGNITION said:
I would like to see a little video clip of the box in action driving down the road etc showing a/f ratio, manifold vacuum, rpm, road speed etc.....
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So would I!

I made some runs with the old version and they were very instructive. Unfortunately, none of that video survives.

Just about the time I had the new Road Rig ready for action, unignorable problems began to land on me and I've been digging out ever since: serious brake problem; sudden loss of power that prompted me to build my Crane/HEI ignition system; an itch to build my "Frankenstein" distributor (which is wonderful) from an '80s Chevy HEI distributor and a donor housing; then the discovery that my fuel tank was full of rust and gooey coating remains.

Well, all that now remains to do is install the new tank, replace the fuel line, and then Daisy Mae will be back on the road.
 
Thanks guys! I've got a permanent vacuum & A/F gauges in my 31 PK with a French 239. You can't believe how handy they are. Next step is a Chevy dist and then fuel injection. Going to be awhile for F/I though :-(
Butch
 
OK, glad to see others are picking up the torch, the more the merrier. Now rather than run through other mistakes, read JWL book "Flathead Facts" and the chapter on carburetors. He ran an EFI system during one of his tests. These things go for 1200 bucks or more, and the Edelbrock 4bl is very adjustable and inexpensive considering.

As for the videos, I have a few that Richard sent me and they are very hard to see the timing light will sync with the camera and you miss some of the numbers. also the lighting interferes with the camera. That's why the new instrument box.

However it did give us enough information about the mechanical advance and the vacuum advance. It was so nice to see the advance go to 28 degs after accelerating up to speed. Then the AF meter went from the mid 13's to the hi 15's. with no ping and 8.5CR. That was with a the T-5 and 4.10 rear. now he has a 3.54 rear.
I'm glad he's in Fls where it's summer now and last night it was 18 here.
 
Ron you mentioned JWL's testing, I have his and your books, have read them cover to cover and still reference them. I have an av8 '30 pickup and I put the fuel injection under the intake manifold on it with the injectors pointing to the back of the valves. With this setup I find the low rpm torque under load to be very good and no chugging or bucking. Pict below on how it is positioned. After using the wideband 02 sensor and AFR gauges I can't believe what all it can tell you about the fuel and tuning. A picture below to show the position the fuel injectors. Thanks Ron and Richard for sharing what you have been working on and the results, Ron and John (JWL) for their books, Jim (Bubba's) for his tech posts and for giving me my first set of fuel injectors (free and postage included) when I made my first fuel injected flathead, all standup people.

Vergil

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Thanks Virgil, I know we've talked befor about this. But this is the first time I saw your indtolation. It's beautiful. Now you can map the fuel and ignition? What is your milage? I was going to buy a Megasquirt, but we decided to a more conventional method so everybody else could benifet
 
Thanks Ron, during the summer when it was hot I was having a problem going up long grades with detonation even when retarding the timing, adding more fuel, using higher octane and octane booster. It was getting around 19 mpg, not real good but I could live with it. What I couldn't live with was the detonation. I have Navarro heads on the 8ba and running NGK B-6L plugs. I had to use index washers to raise the plugs up because on the passenger side the ground electrode would just touch the valve head, not enough to change the gap but it was touching. Two things I changed that has done away with the detonation so far, I am using a Morosso oil catch can in the PVC line to remove any oil from the blowby before returning it to the engine. I wanted to go to a colder spark plug but couldn't find a colder NGK plug than the B-6L, went to a Bosch W5EC which is colder and also 1/16" shorter. I could tell a difference as soon as I swithched the plugs. I haven't got to check the mileage yet but can now up the timing a little and tune some more on it. The engine didn't run hot even running just a three blade fan and no shroud. I did back off when the detonation came into play though. With the fuel injection I can add or pull timing, add or pull fuel while driving which is a big help. I am impressed with what you and Richard have done with the basic carburetion and distributor, thumbs up for sharing with us. You are right, the computer lets you change anything you want to at any load, air temperature, water temperature and etc. You can flip a switch and the computer will save a data log that can be downloaded to a laptop later and shows what is happening and when. Another thing I added was an oil cooler in the return fuel line to take some of the heat out of the fuel before returning it to the gas tank. I also added a thermostat controlled oil cooler to remove some of the heat from the oil, with the fuel injectors under the intake I'm sure they soak up the heat from hot oil.

Vergil
 
VERGIL...."It was getting around 19 mpg, not real good but I could live with it".......Are you kidding me!!? I would be ecstatic with 19MPG......Matt in Alameda
 
Matt in Alameda said:
Vergil...."It was getting around 19 mpg, not real good but I could live with it".......Are you kidding me!!? I would be ecstatic with 19MPH......Matt in Alameda
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Matt with the control the computer gives me for changing for any conditions and load I was hoping for a little more than that. It does have the T5 overdrive with 3.78 gears in the rear end and 820-15 tires. It is not very aerodynamic when running 60 - 70 mph which is our cruising speed on the freeway when going to car shows, pushes a lot of air ...

Vergil
 
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