Tudor vs coupe-$$$
- Thread starter 1929
- Start date
engine rebuild and frame off
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
Well that all depends....
What kind of restoration and for what purpose?
How much of the work can you do and to what quality level?
You can expect to spend between $8,000 and $15,000 on properly restoring the chassis back to factory specs assuming you do almost all the work yourself. Keep in mind this is not to show car points condition, this is returning the tolerances back to factory and getting it painted. When you are done you will have a fairly factory car that will run the 60+ mph all day long like it could from the factory.
Prices double if you have to start paying people to do the work right.
Now you can do the job cheaper, but then there is a reason why people believe the Model A is car that only run 45 MPH safely.
Then there is doing the body. Figure at least $8000 to have a rust free body and fenders painted by a quality shop or several thousand to do it yourself. Quality interior kits are in the $3500 to $6000 range I believe. Then there are getting the parts plated correct so there is another couple of thousand. Wood kits vary depending on body style. I am making some assumptions that you have a not very rusty car and good fenders. Metal work can run a few thousand.
Now take a look at the market. Coupes and tudors can be bought in the $8000 to $15,000 range for 'restored' cars. Typically cars are not mechanical restored and may need thousands of $$$ to make them reliable and safe, but not always.
Coupes have more selling power, tudors are the lowest of desire. Fordors are nice if you have a family, but the straight window bodies have a lot of wood and the wood often needs work. The wood is expensive and time consuming. Slant fordor bodies are minimal wood and very popular right now. Your better return on the dollar would be in the vicky and cabriolet restorations, though the vicky is a wood based body (well both are). The 400A is pricey to aquire.
It all comes down to goals and pocket book.
What kind of restoration and for what purpose?
How much of the work can you do and to what quality level?
You can expect to spend between $8,000 and $15,000 on properly restoring the chassis back to factory specs assuming you do almost all the work yourself. Keep in mind this is not to show car points condition, this is returning the tolerances back to factory and getting it painted. When you are done you will have a fairly factory car that will run the 60+ mph all day long like it could from the factory.
Prices double if you have to start paying people to do the work right.
Now you can do the job cheaper, but then there is a reason why people believe the Model A is car that only run 45 MPH safely.
Then there is doing the body. Figure at least $8000 to have a rust free body and fenders painted by a quality shop or several thousand to do it yourself. Quality interior kits are in the $3500 to $6000 range I believe. Then there are getting the parts plated correct so there is another couple of thousand. Wood kits vary depending on body style. I am making some assumptions that you have a not very rusty car and good fenders. Metal work can run a few thousand.
Now take a look at the market. Coupes and tudors can be bought in the $8000 to $15,000 range for 'restored' cars. Typically cars are not mechanical restored and may need thousands of $$$ to make them reliable and safe, but not always.
Coupes have more selling power, tudors are the lowest of desire. Fordors are nice if you have a family, but the straight window bodies have a lot of wood and the wood often needs work. The wood is expensive and time consuming. Slant fordor bodies are minimal wood and very popular right now. Your better return on the dollar would be in the vicky and cabriolet restorations, though the vicky is a wood based body (well both are). The 400A is pricey to aquire.
It all comes down to goals and pocket book.
dan
Senior Member
Others with more experience can perhaps give a more precise answer, but if you're rebuilding the engine and doing a frame-off restoration of the car, don't expect to get the money you put into it back out... unless you bought it at an amazingly good price and can do all the work yourself. Oh yes, and your time isn't worth money 
I bought a coupe in pretty good shape for what more experienced folks told me was a pretty good price, fixed up a few things, and when I had to sell it I didn't get back 1/2 of what I put into it. But I wasn't interested in the car as an "investment" (I don't think cars--except extremely rare/desirable ones--make a good investment) I bought it to drive and to learn more about Model A's. In that sense, the enjoyment I got out of it an what I learned wrenching on it, it was worth it.
Just my thoughts.
I bought a coupe in pretty good shape for what more experienced folks told me was a pretty good price, fixed up a few things, and when I had to sell it I didn't get back 1/2 of what I put into it. But I wasn't interested in the car as an "investment" (I don't think cars--except extremely rare/desirable ones--make a good investment) I bought it to drive and to learn more about Model A's. In that sense, the enjoyment I got out of it an what I learned wrenching on it, it was worth it.
Just my thoughts.
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
Great advice!
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Are you a car jockey, or are you buying the car to keep because you like it?
As mentioned, you can't properly restore the car as an investment, unless you are doing a Rolls Royce or Duesenberg.
I find Fordors the most comfortable and luxurious. Tudors can also carry 4 people in comfort and have good looks. Coupes have sport appeal. So, just buy the one you like and the one that serves your purpose. If I had the money and space, I'd have one of each.
As mentioned, you can't properly restore the car as an investment, unless you are doing a Rolls Royce or Duesenberg.
I find Fordors the most comfortable and luxurious. Tudors can also carry 4 people in comfort and have good looks. Coupes have sport appeal. So, just buy the one you like and the one that serves your purpose. If I had the money and space, I'd have one of each.
DougVieyra
Well-known member
Dan - Post # 7 ". . . a more precise answer. "
________________________________
If you want a precise answer, After years of research and extensive poll taking, I can with great authority tell you that exactly 3,467 people are in the market to buy a Coupe. AND there are 3, 468 people who prefer a Tudor Sedan. So going by the rule of "Supply and Demand", the Tudor Sedan is the car you should make your investment fortune.
After extensive market analysis I can tell you that the Tudor Sedan is worth $1.42 more than a Coupe - Assuming that all features and components of the 5,232 individual parts that make up a complete car, are identical in depth and quality of material and craftsmanship.
With the complex nature of measuring the quality of 5,232 parts, it may very well be that the Coupe might be worth $1.86 more than a Tudor Sedan. The important thing to remember is that after doing all the work Keven in N.J. mentions, and spending both LOTS of $$$$ and years of work, and perhaps storing the car for several years, when you finally 'cash in' your "investment", you will have reaped a 'windfall' profit of some where between $1.42 and $1.86. between the two choices of cars to restore.
Ten years from now, in the 'grand scheme of things', perhaps the $22,385 for a Tudor vs. the $22,386 for a Coupe, netted from the sale of your 'investment' may not mean much, but for some the $1 gain may be meaningful.
I hope the scientific nature of this answer to your question has given all the information you need to determine which is the better investment value.
Of course, another recent study found just the opposite conclusions. And too, some quibble about the quality of both research projects. And too, some say, "Good God Man, there ain't a rat's *** worth of difference between the two." But I prefer the findings of the first analysis at the top of the incoherent rant.
Or, you could ignore all the answers you find on this post, and DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, because the $1 profit difference in your 'investment' choice may have less value than the personal enjoyment you get out of YOUR CHOICE of car styles.
- Kevin in N.J., post #6 is the post you should really be listening to, as well as post # 8 & 9, if you are primarily after 'investment' verses enjoyment.
________________________________
If you want a precise answer, After years of research and extensive poll taking, I can with great authority tell you that exactly 3,467 people are in the market to buy a Coupe. AND there are 3, 468 people who prefer a Tudor Sedan. So going by the rule of "Supply and Demand", the Tudor Sedan is the car you should make your investment fortune.
After extensive market analysis I can tell you that the Tudor Sedan is worth $1.42 more than a Coupe - Assuming that all features and components of the 5,232 individual parts that make up a complete car, are identical in depth and quality of material and craftsmanship.
With the complex nature of measuring the quality of 5,232 parts, it may very well be that the Coupe might be worth $1.86 more than a Tudor Sedan. The important thing to remember is that after doing all the work Keven in N.J. mentions, and spending both LOTS of $$$$ and years of work, and perhaps storing the car for several years, when you finally 'cash in' your "investment", you will have reaped a 'windfall' profit of some where between $1.42 and $1.86. between the two choices of cars to restore.
Ten years from now, in the 'grand scheme of things', perhaps the $22,385 for a Tudor vs. the $22,386 for a Coupe, netted from the sale of your 'investment' may not mean much, but for some the $1 gain may be meaningful.
I hope the scientific nature of this answer to your question has given all the information you need to determine which is the better investment value.
Of course, another recent study found just the opposite conclusions. And too, some quibble about the quality of both research projects. And too, some say, "Good God Man, there ain't a rat's *** worth of difference between the two." But I prefer the findings of the first analysis at the top of the incoherent rant.
Or, you could ignore all the answers you find on this post, and DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, because the $1 profit difference in your 'investment' choice may have less value than the personal enjoyment you get out of YOUR CHOICE of car styles.
- Kevin in N.J., post #6 is the post you should really be listening to, as well as post # 8 & 9, if you are primarily after 'investment' verses enjoyment.
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BlueSunoco
Well-known member
A really really nice Tudor will be worth more than a ratty Coupe.
If both body styles are restored to the same level, a Coupe should be worth more money. '30-'31's cost a bit more to restore than '28-'29's from what I have been told over the years but are worth more when you're done.
I'd put my money into which body style/year you like the best, go have fun and don't look back. If someday you have to sell and make a little money well, OK. If you break even, that's good too. If you sell for less than what you have in the car, figure the difference was the 'cost' of having fun.
My point being, cigarettes, booze, and eating at restaurants all cost money often a LOT of money but you never ever get a dime back from doing that and they can often end up costing you a lot more in DUI's, and poor health from over eating fatty food, toasting your liver on alcohol, and smoking the cigs. Antique cars offer some money back someday and a whole lot more fun, and good for your health as smiles are healthy for you
If both body styles are restored to the same level, a Coupe should be worth more money. '30-'31's cost a bit more to restore than '28-'29's from what I have been told over the years but are worth more when you're done.
I'd put my money into which body style/year you like the best, go have fun and don't look back. If someday you have to sell and make a little money well, OK. If you break even, that's good too. If you sell for less than what you have in the car, figure the difference was the 'cost' of having fun.
My point being, cigarettes, booze, and eating at restaurants all cost money often a LOT of money but you never ever get a dime back from doing that and they can often end up costing you a lot more in DUI's, and poor health from over eating fatty food, toasting your liver on alcohol, and smoking the cigs. Antique cars offer some money back someday and a whole lot more fun, and good for your health as smiles are healthy for you
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Let's spin this a different direction. Bill Underwood and I have discussed which bodystyle we felt had the best R.O.I. for an authentic restoration, and we felt the 180A was probably the best one.
I know some will argue that the Town Car or T/C Delivery would fetch more money than the 180A, --and while true, when a person factors in the initial cost of the T/C pr T/C Delivery, the additional costs of a specialized interior, the body coach-crafting (wood) that would needed, extra plating, etc., I think someone quickly realizes how these extras eat into the bottom line of the project. Thoughts??
I know some will argue that the Town Car or T/C Delivery would fetch more money than the 180A, --and while true, when a person factors in the initial cost of the T/C pr T/C Delivery, the additional costs of a specialized interior, the body coach-crafting (wood) that would needed, extra plating, etc., I think someone quickly realizes how these extras eat into the bottom line of the project. Thoughts??
BlueSunoco
Well-known member
Good points to ponder here thanks Brent.
On a similar but slightly different note, interesting link on YouTube of a Haggerty Seminar on the prospects of 2015 and beyond for collector car values.
Lengthy, I'll summarize if you don't have the time to watch. Windows 8.1 makes it hard to go to another window w/o losing this one first. Will go out and try to come back here.
High end cars (V-16 Cadillac Roadsters, Packards, etc.) always will have collector appeal. As will the big dollar Ferrarri's, Aston Martin's etc. etc. They point to graphs of the last 30 years, showing car values going thru the roof then crashing in 1990-1991. Going up, taking a dive with the housing market crash in 2007-2008. Seminarians ( not the priest-to-be guys
) on the show don't see interest in collector cars going away. In fact with the world wide desire for American cars it is now increasing again and will continue to do so. Quote from show 'They only made so many (fill in the American collector antique car blank) and people from S. Korea to China (now really getting into the old cars) to many other countries, are really getting interested in American iron.'
Demographics also----- younger folks are liking the 1920's thru early 40's cars at a rate unseen recently, just because the baby Boomers (hate that term) want 442 Oldsmobiles, Chevelle's, Cudas etc. doesn't mean there is or will be no market for old iron. There is. Often times the same collector will find room to squeeze in a Model A alongside his Torino GT, people like the variation!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jHwIWFZKfKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here we go, I think!
On a similar but slightly different note, interesting link on YouTube of a Haggerty Seminar on the prospects of 2015 and beyond for collector car values.
Lengthy, I'll summarize if you don't have the time to watch. Windows 8.1 makes it hard to go to another window w/o losing this one first. Will go out and try to come back here.
High end cars (V-16 Cadillac Roadsters, Packards, etc.) always will have collector appeal. As will the big dollar Ferrarri's, Aston Martin's etc. etc. They point to graphs of the last 30 years, showing car values going thru the roof then crashing in 1990-1991. Going up, taking a dive with the housing market crash in 2007-2008. Seminarians ( not the priest-to-be guys
) on the show don't see interest in collector cars going away. In fact with the world wide desire for American cars it is now increasing again and will continue to do so. Quote from show 'They only made so many (fill in the American collector antique car blank) and people from S. Korea to China (now really getting into the old cars) to many other countries, are really getting interested in American iron.' Demographics also----- younger folks are liking the 1920's thru early 40's cars at a rate unseen recently, just because the baby Boomers (hate that term) want 442 Oldsmobiles, Chevelle's, Cudas etc. doesn't mean there is or will be no market for old iron. There is. Often times the same collector will find room to squeeze in a Model A alongside his Torino GT, people like the variation!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jHwIWFZKfKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here we go, I think!
DougVieyra
Well-known member
Brent (Post # 10) , however the initial post was asking which, between a Coupe and a Tudor, was the best R.O.I. So other options were not on his radar. I suspect that he has those two options (Coupe & Tudor) available to chose from, as he mentioned no other body styles.
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Yes, I agree he did ask between a Tudor and a Coupe, ....and it appears he received enough info in that regard, so I spun it into a different direction solely based on the comments he was receiving about not restoring for profit. I would venture a guess my comments were as accurate as someone's bogus 'polls' and market analysis!!
Charlie Stephens
Well-known member
Unless the car belonged to a family member and had sentimental value I would suggest buying one that has been already restored. Although the tables may show something else to me the value of a coupe and a two door sedan is about the same. The four doors (except the '31 slant windows) have so much wood that I would not even consider one.
Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens
31 Model A
Well-known member
When I went to looking, it was either a coupe or a roadster already restored fully or to a point. A Tudor never entered into my mind, just didn't fit into being a chick magnet.