try and stop me...

32Gnu

Senior Member
Take a look at the front brakes on my 32..

(Time to stop thinking about going and worry about stopping)


anyone have any ideas on the position of the shoes.. I know on the backs(late model) the short shoe is towords the front, but this has it on the rear.. Is this correct for what I assume are 40 brakes..

Who makes good stuff and what do I need to be thinking about here as I move forward with the brakes.. I know I will need another master, but want to consider the balance of the whole deal here front to back.... do not want to go disk/drum... want to leave drums all around

Thanks Guys... Tom
 

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1940 Ford brakes are LOCKHEED style brakes and the longer show goes on the front and shorter shoe goes on the rear. On BENDIX style brakes the longer shoe goes on the rear and the shorter shoe goes on the front. The wheel cylinders in your photo don't look like the cylinders used on the 40 Ford brake assembly. Other components look different also. For instance cotter keys and the type of brake shoe retainers you have are not used on 1940 Ford brakes. In short they may not be 1940 ford brakes or 46-48 Ford brakes. Others will know more.
 
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Firstly, the brake in the photo is a typical 46-48 with self-centering shoes; no
adjustable eccentric lower shoe anchors as with 39-42's. When I first looked at the photo, I immediately wondered about the wheel cylinder, as mentioned.
It is supposed to be a "step bore" with 1-3/8" forward piston (39-41's were originally 1-1/4" but those are no longer available new...) The rear piston is
1". In the photo, it appears to have the same size at both ends? On Ford/Lockheed brakes, the larger pistons face forward. The cylinders for the rear brakes are 1-1/8" forward and 1" rearward, which results in "front bias" so there is more braking force applied to the front brakes than the rears. These brakes are NOT self-energizing, and the stopping is mostly performed by the forward shoe when going forward. The rear shoe does very little except when going in reverse. Accordingly, they have "design" limitations...

Secondly, you apparently have more modern Bendix (self-energizing) brakes on the rear. Maybe you have a late rear axle??? Anyway, the Bendix brakes
stop WAY better than the Ford/Lockheed and with much less pedal force. Therefore, this improved design will be enough to create "rear bias" when used with the Ford Lockheed brakes on the front. This can result in the rear
brakes (where there is also less weight) locking up before the fronts, which can result in serious loss of control, like "swapping ends" depending on other factors. This is definitely NOT a good thing!!!

Suggestion: One way or another, you should install Bendix brakes also on the front. If you plan to run Ford or KH wire wheels, you will need to continue to use the 12" Ford hubs/drums, and with Wire Wheel Support Rings. You can either find a pair of Lincoln-Bendix brakes (1941 fronts = "hen's teeth and BIG $$$) or 39-48 rears, which have the same offset as the Ford/Lockheed brake plates. 39-40 fronts ("deep dished") which are also rare and $$$, can be used with original 32 front spindles by doing some other stuff AND using the Lincoln front hubs with either good original drums or new USA drums. The 42-48 Lincoln brakes are "medium dished" and can also be used, but there are some more issues to deal with AND wire wheels do not fit the drums. Another option is to use the new reproduction Bendix brakes (marketed as 39 but they are not) with Ford hubs and drums. These are available from myself and others.

IF you do not plan to use wire wheels, you can also use the 11" F-1/F-100 brakes. (Apparently wire wheels CAN be used with these, but a very thick spacer is required and that may mess up the front end geometry??? so I do not recommend it - others will disagree??? "Stand by".) Frankly, these smaller-diameter brakes also LOOK crappy as there is "too much empty wheel: as compared to the 12" brakes.

IF you have an original 32 frame with K-member and original pedals, a true
"bolt-in" (using only factory holes) master cylinder setup is available that uses the original/unmodified pedals (no whack and weld) does not require relocation of the battery, or any other permanent modifications.
 
I want to post a pic of the rear brakes.. but... Is there a trick to removing the rear hubs without screwing anything up?
 
You need to get hold of a good old fashioned KBWilson (sp?) hub puller or its modern reproduction. You should be able to find one to borrow. Try posting a more specific location here and see if anyone comes forward. There are cheaper tools ("knockers", flimsy pullers, etc) to pull rear hubs, but they're unlikely to be successful.
 
I want to post a pic of the rear brakes.. but... Is there a trick to removing the rear hubs without screwing anything up?

From your original post, I got the impression that the rear brakes are "late model" - from which I "assumed" that you have a late model rear axle and not an early Ford banjo rear. From there, I "assumed" that the rear brakes are modern Bendix. HOWEVER, if you need a puller to remove rear hubs (the KRW ABV-156 that the other guys are suggesting IS the one to use) then maybe you DO NOT have a late model rear and maybe the rear brakes are also 46-48 like the fronts. I will look at the photos of the rears when you are able to post them and will maybe? have some other suggestions.
 
Here is what we have on the rear.. Got lucky and took the axle nut off and one of my collar type pullers fit right on the hub lip and half a turn later off she came..

Take a look at the rears.. I would say they are the same vitage as the front.. one noticible difference is the wheel cyl has two different bores as Richard spoke earlier of..
 

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You got NO EMERGENCY BRAKES!! Also, if your hub came off easily, there's something wrong there too. However, the shoes and wheel cylinder appear to be facing in the right direction. Now, why is everything canted to the rear. Are these mounted on a Model A rear end? Could you get a picture from the other side of the backing plate?
 
Here is what we have on the rear.. Got lucky and took the axle nut off and one of my collar type pullers fit right on the hub lip and half a turn later off she came..

Take a look at the rears.. I would say they are the same vitage as the front.. one noticible difference is the wheel cyl has two different bores as Richard spoke earlier of..

It may just be an optical occlusion BUT the wheel cylinder has a very strong resemblance to what should be on the front. If you measure
the forward piston diameter and it is 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" it is...

So everything I posted about your rear brakes that was based on an
incorrect assumption (are there any CORRECT assumptions???) and
while still true, does not apply to you...

PVS asked why the rear brakes are "canted" to the rear; this is a 32
rear end, correct? If so, then it is like all 32-34's. They came that way. Makes bleeding the rear brakes interesting... take the front
wheels off and lower it to the ground, then jack the rear WAY up and
it will be a little more on the level. (Just another PITA brought to you by Ford...) There is also a handbrake kit available that clamps
onto the torque tube and connects from the handle bottom and goes
rearward and under the torque tube and connects in the middle to the rear loop. If you have the lever and link on the RH side, makes it
easy to have a handbrake - you really should have one!!!!
 
here are a couple of shots of the backside of the left rear backing plate..

Richard, who makes the parking brake you spoke of?

Thanks again guys...
 

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It appears to be a 32 "B" style (dogleg in the radius rod, straight fore-aft mount on the axle housing.) Could be a 4.11 or 3.78 ratio; can check the numbers on the bottom center of the "banjo" center section AND on the speedo drive "turtle". 9-37 = 4.11 9-34 = 3.78 Turtle might have 21 or 19 respectively or might have the same numbers as on the banjo. If has anything else, post it and will advise. This rear has the same internals as Model A, but has a tubular driveshaft with a taper and keyway at the rear that looks like the end of a rear axle. The pinion is "stub-mounted" which means that it has no rearward pilot bearing as does the very-late 32 "18" rear and thereafter. The "B" rear is not the greatest, but are ok for "sane" driving - not so good if abused... Good part is that 3.54 gears are available and can be installed without having to do a bunch of extra work... New axles are also available...
 
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