Troubleshooting Help Needed - Restarting Issue '46 Tudor

FortyNiner

FortyNiner

Well-known member
Engine Info:
Stock 59AB V8 completely rebuilt 2000 miles ago
6 Volt system - correct sized cables replaced as part of restoration
New starter, with updated drive, from Dennis Carpenter installed after rebuild
All connections clean and tight - multiple grounds in place and checked with voltmeter
Engine temp shows normal on gauge and unchanged since first fire. (used a IR gun to check readings)
Generator rebuild and rechecked by an experienced shop
Battery replaced after 500 miles (had wrong group size initially)
Coil rebuilt by Skip
Carb rebuilt by Charlie NY


Background:
Once back on the road, starts were good after Skip rebuilt the coil. Cold or warm, it fired up quickly. No issues for the first 1500 miles.

Current Situation:
Cold starts are still great. The engine turns over quickly and fires within seconds. Runs strong and shows charge on the amp meter.
Once warmed, the restarts attempts will get either solenoid clicks, slow cranking (may or may not fire), or seemingly normal cranking and fire.
The changes in restarts have changed in the past 4 weeks. Initially, there were some slow restarts when warm. In the past week, I'm getting mostly very slow cranks (no fire) or solenoid clicks unless a cold start.

Stuff I've tried:
Checked the battery when slow cranks or solenoid clicks - consistently at 6 volts.
Replaced the solenoid - didn't affect warm restart results
Roll starts (popping the clutch in 1st) are always successful and very quick

My ask:
Looking for some wisdom on next steps to get back my reliability. What say you, Barners?
 
Did you clean the pan surface for a good ground? Is the engine well grounded to the body? Is the bracket that goes between the starter and pan in place?
 
Yes and yes. Grounds are good and have been checked for continunity. Starter bracket in place.

I can recheck the solenoid grounding.

Thanks for the inputs.
 
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Considering ALL of your WELL-STATED symptoms, especially "slow cranking when warm", and the "no crank" items leads me to either a temperamental solenoid (which I doubt), or a sh1tty connection at the solenoid POST where the BATTERY/SMALL wire attach to the solenoid.

I would first disconnect the POS GROUND Battery cable at the POS BATT Post. Now, disconnect the NEG Battery cable at NEG Battery post. While you have that apart, clean the NEG battery post. Clean the CONNECTOR that goes on that NEG post.

Now, with the NEG cable disconnected at battery, also disconnect the other end from solenoid, along with the smaller wire attached to the same point. Thoroughly clean the CABLE end, as well as the connector on the end of SMALLER wire. That smaller wire powers the COIL along with lights and other accessories.

RE-Connect that NEG cable end and the smaller wire to the solenoid stud.

Now, RE-Connect the NEG Cable to battery.

Now. RE-Connect POS GROUND cable to POS Batt Post.


If your results are like before, I'd suspect some internal and intermittent problem with the solenoid. Hope this helps you! DD





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The starter was replaced at about 200 miles with a new unit from Dennis Carpenter. (The original was rebuilt but failed - drive wouldn't remain engaged).

Thanks, Ggmac.
 
FortyNiner said:
I can recheck the solenoid grounding.

Thanks for the inputs.
Click to expand...


IF the solenoid is a stock Ford-type with ONE small post for starter button wire, the solenoid does NOT require grounding. The starter button provides GROUND for the START circuit. DD
 
V8COOPMAN said:
.

Considering ALL of your WELL-STATED symptoms, especially "slow cranking when warm", and the "no crank" items leads me to either a temperamental solenoid (which I doubt), or a sh1tty connection at the solenoid POST where the BATTERY/SMALL wire attach to the solenoid.

I would first disconnect the POS GROUND Battery cable at the POS BATT Post. Now, disconnect the NEG Battery cable at NEG Battery post. While you have that apart, clean the NEG battery post. Clean the CONNECTOR that goes on that NEG post.

Now, with the NEG cable disconnected at battery, also disconnect the other end from solenoid, along with the smaller wire attached to the same point. Thoroughly clean the CABLE end, as well as the connector on the end of SMALLER wire. That smaller wire powers the COIL along with lights and other accessories.

RE-Connect that NEG cable end and the smaller wire to the solenoid stud.

Now, RE-Connect the NEG Cable to battery.

Now. RE-Connect POS GROUND cable to POS Batt Post.


If your results are like before, I'd suspect some internal and intermittent problem with the solenoid. Hope this helps you! DD





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Click to expand...

Appreciate the comments, DD. The battery is a few months old and the car was completely rewired so the connectors are also new. I can recheck these items again, of course.

The most baffling part of this is the recent change in performance. It's causing me to mutter to myself more than usual.
 
V8COOPMAN said:
IF the solenoid is a stock Ford-type with ONE small post for starter button wire, the solenoid does NOT require grounding. The starter button provides GROUND for the START circuit. DD
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a stock solenoid with a small post for the starter button wire.
 
Had a similar problem with our 46 sedan many years ago, eventually found the terminals on the back of the ignition switch were getting very hot, indicating poor connections. Cleaned them and not problems since.
 
Some good troubleshooting info here. Can I humbly suggest you also consider the start button.

I have had some with a mind of their own.
 
Electrical issues disappeared on my 41 when I added a ground wire from the dash to the body and cleaned the paint around the starter button.


Bruce
 
I'm a believer in the importance of sound grounding in these beauties. I'll recheck the multiple grounds to the dash.

Thanks, Bruce.
 
The grounding should be such that touching any two points on the body and frame structures and the engine block wil show zero ohms.
 
Nothing to add. Great rundown or description.

Clicking solenoid usually means low power. or a charging issue. You can hop the solenoid to see if that is defective too with a screwdriver. Or on a 60-70s car hotwire a motor.


solenoid is just an off/on switch. It rarely (or in my experience never) goes bad. Take the lead from the starter button and tap it on a good ground.
 
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