Toly VS Zenith

Missouri A

Missouri A

Member
Opinions please.
'31 Coupe stock engine Tolly carb.
Timing on spot, worked all day and finally got it right.
Back fires through carb some time.At road speed. Wants to die after a quick stop.
Carb floods with full tank of gas, but seems to be OK with lower fuel in tank.
If more info is needed I'll try.

Thanks to all
Stan
 
By tradition over the decades, whenever a Model A Ford was acquired, first thing was to get rid of the troublesome Zenith carburetor and install a Tillotson or just about anything else usable. Presently, our 31' sedan runs with a sweetly simmering 1930s era Marvel carb. The replaced gas pig, spark plug fouling Zenith, which appears to have been rebuilt, presently sits abandoned on a shelf. It certainly is a handsome piece of old European industrial art.
 
Carb floods with full tank of gas, but seems to be OK with lower fuel in tank.


Needle or seat is not sealing properly. May be leaking through the jet because needle isn't seating or past the threads due to faulty gasket.

As Mike advised, time for an overhaul.
 
Thanks for all of the reply's. I think I have finally got it right. Reset float, all seems to be much better. Will take it for a cruse in the AM and see if all is well.

I turned gas valve at tank off and let it run dry. Should it, when it finally runs out of gas, reverse rotation about a 1/4 revolution?.

Starts great runs great, runs at 185 degrees.

Sure would be nice to have a Thermador cooler for the window. My grand dad had one but kept forgetting to add water.

90 degrees aint that comfortable.:mad:

Thanks to all:)

Stan
 
While waiting for the gas in the carb bowl to run out before turning off the ignition key, fully retard the spark lever. That will keep the engine from kicking back on the final compression stroke when the gas is gone. I always retard the timing while idling, sitting at a stoplight or any time the engine will be running a few seconds without the car moving. This somewhat cushions the explosions in each cylinder and reduces pressure on the rod bearings. Doing this also automatically gets things set for the next time you start the engine.
Marshall
 
I should also mention that distributors other than in antique cars automatically retard themselves during the conditions I listed in my posting above. We Model A and T guys (and most of the rest of the antique car world) have to do this manually. It's not a good idea to use only the two extreme spark lever settings while driving the Model A. Different power demands require different placement of the lever. Once again, modern distributors do this automatically, while we Model A and T guys must remember to move the lever to the optimum position ourselves.
Someone mentioned in this thread that the timing should be slightly retarded when going up a steep hill. This is an important factor in reducing the pounding on rod bearings. I believe it's even recommended in the Ford Owner's Manual. As one starts up a steep hill at speed in third gear, slightly move the spark level up until you find the "sweet spot" in the engine's power curve where there is no knocking, but also no major loss of power. Too much retarding the spark and the engine will seem sluggish; too much advance and the rod bearings will knock and the engine will struggle. Each engine is different, so it's up to each driver to find that "sweet spot" on hills.
I saw a friend's engine years ago that had blown the top of #1 piston off and others not far behind. I asked him if he had been retarding the timing all these years while climbing the steep hills around here. He said "What? Why do that?" This was an answer in itself and explains why he blew the top of number #1 piston clear off!
Marshall
 
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In addition, my '31 Coupe has indented firewall, no shutoff valve. I installed one and works very well. Question!! Does anyone make a shutoff valve that can be turned off from inside the car? I get tire of having to open the hood every time I park it.
Any and all comments welcome.
Ill try to post picture of my little doll soon.
 
My '31 Coupe has never had a fuel shutoff valve to my knowledge. I bought one from a local hardware store and works well. Question!!!!! Does anyone make a valve that can be turned off from inside the car? I get so tired of having to open the hood every time I shut it down.
All replies will be accepted as fact.
By the way, I love this forum and all info I have received has been a blessing
Thanks again
Stan
 
My late 31 has a hardware store ball valve in place of the factory one. It also has an electric one that shuts off with the ignition switch.
 
Missouri,
Whooshing back out of the carb on shut down is just one of the NORMAL sounds for a FUN Model A. I like the gas smell! (WHEE!)
Bill W.
 
Carl G , I would like to know how you turn off the electric shut-off with the ignition switch. It only shuts off the line from the coil to the points which does nothing for the rest of the electrical system. Jack
 
Sad story for today. Yesterday afternoon I thought it would be great to take a short ride. All is well, running along about 40 mph, found sweet spot on spark advance purring like a new engine. Then I noticed a little smoke, hot oil smell. I pulled over to the side of the road, looked under the rear main area and around $4.00 worth of oil was running onto the ground.
Looked around on the left side and noticed the rear two cylinders on the block were black, I had just finished painting the block and accessories, Was really looking good. Sat there for a few minutes and checked oil, low but enough to start. Retarded spark, hit start button, fired right up. You really don't want to know how it sounded.
Called home for son to bring tow strap and pickup.
It now sets in the garage taking up space waiting on some one to change engine.
Im a disabled VN Vet. With very little money to be putting into the car at this time. Ill start taking it apart little by little and looking for a new banger.

Hope your day is better than mine

Update to follow.

Stan
 
Just came in from the garage. Pulled #4 plug. Looked down in with a bore scope. About half of the top of the piston is missing. #3 looks good.

Now, my "A " days are put on hold.

By the way, I have never pulled an A engine. Can it be done without pulling trans at the same time, or is it easier pulling both at the same time??????
 
In my opinion it is easier to pull the transmission with the engine. Your going to need a hoist of some kind and if you are disabled some help.
 
My guess is someone before you was running with too much advance in the initial ignition timing, never or rarely adjusting the lever to suit driving conditions. Plus, if the previous owner lived in a very hilly or mountainous area and didn't slightly retard the timing while climbing those steep grades at speed, he was killing his engine. It'll take a while, but sooner or later the top of a piston will blow off. See my posting on this subject in the last few days. Unless you have been driving the car like this, you are probably not at fault for what happened yesterday. It was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off because of poor driving habits by someone along the line.
Now, if this is a fresh rebuild, it's likely a set of the improperly made pistons was installed. From reports received from all over the country, those pistons are made of an inferior alloy and are not cam ground. Both factors are a recipe for disaster. A complete teardown is obviously in order. This will be a good time to inspect the Babbitt in the bearings, too. That is almost always a reliable way of judging the quality of the engine rebuild. Poor Babbitt pouring practices = other problems with the rebuild are also certain to be present.
'Sorry to read about your engine disaster. Most of us on this website have had a catastrophic Model A engine failure in our lives. It's not the end of the world - although it seems like it at the moment. Look at it as an OPPORTUNITY to correct a previous owner's mistakes so that you'll end up with a better car.
Marshall
 
Thanks to Marshall, Yes I always retard a little
go up grades runs much better that way.
My Grandfather never rewarded his, just turned around put it in reverse and backed up the hill.
Thanks for all the replies.
Back to my "FORD BARN".

Stan
 
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