Toe in

M

ModelAArmy

Member
I just replaced my 19” wheels with 16” wheels and with new radial 215/70R/16 tires. I also had new balls welded on my steering arms and installed the arms with the easy steer teflon system. I now need to make sure my toe in is correct but I do not have any tool to check toe in. I do not want to spend money on a tool so I would like to go to an alignment shop and have them set toe in.

Here is my question. What should I tell the alignment shop to set the toe in at.

I know it may be easy for me to do this but I would rather have an alignment shop that I trust do this. Thanks for any help
 
Just my two cents' worth, but it won't be that much cheaper paying an alignment shop to measure and adjust your toe-in than it would be to buy the tool and do it yourself, both for now and for later down the road after your car has some miles on it and the steering balls' wear changes the toe-in setting. If you buy the tool, not only would you have something in hand afterwards instead just a receipt for work performed, you could also loan or rent the tool to local antique owners. Or even sell it after setting your alignment for what you paid for the tool to a local antique car owner or near to that amount. Then you'd only be out a couple dollars when the dust settles, certainly far less than paying for an alignment service.
Unless you have an "in" or a friend at your alignment shop, my guess is they will charge you at least $100 to check and adjust the toe-in. Where would you rather spend that money - on a one-time repair or for a tool that will find a lot of use in time?
Marshall
 
ModelAArmy said:
I just replaced my 19” wheels with 16” wheels and with new radial 215/70R/16 tires. I also had new balls welded on my steering arms and installed the arms with the easy steer teflon system. I now need to make sure my toe in is correct but I do not have any tool to check toe in. I do not want to spend money on a tool so I would like to go to an alignment shop and have them set toe in.

Here is my question. What should I tell the alignment shop to set the toe in at.

I know it may be easy for me to do this but I would rather have an alignment shop that I trust do this. Thanks for any help
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1/16"-1/8" will do nicely.
 
QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM Service Bulletin Page 282:

1/16th plus or minus 1/32 inch (this is the corrected specification)

Additional information:Note that the previous bulletin Page 239 was found to be wrong. This is the page which explains how to use the Duby Gauge.

Old adjustment was 3/16ths to 1/4 inch and found to increase tire wear.
 
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Here is the toe-in measuring tool I made. Long 2X4 with two upright 2X4's and two screws. I marked the tires with a Sharpe. It was easier for me to use the outside of the tires, no climbing under the car. The uprights were the same height at the screws and determined where to measure, no chains. I screwed the screws in or out to just touch at the rear. With one screw touching at the front the gap at the other was the toe-in. Required to be no slack anywhere. Best if rolling the car forward to take the measurements.

I have seen the tread on new front tires completely removed within 200 miles on tour with a bad toe-in alignment. Whenever changing anything on the front end the toe-in must be checked.
 

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14 inches. Somewhere there is a specification on how high to measure but 14 was convenient for me. I measured at the bulge in the tire, the point furthermost from the center of the car.
 
Thanks for all suggestions but I am glad I got the measurements to give to my alignment guy. I may get my own tool later but for now I will have a technician do my alignment
 
Back in the day there was a machine that you could drive over to measure the toe-in. It had two sets of teeth that would move in response to the front wheels slipping sideways as you drove over them. There was a big gauge that would display the toe-in. I have not seen any of these machines in over 60 years. I suspect that these machines were not all that accurate which caused their disappearance.
 
I used something similar in the eighties/nineties from England as seen on the picture(for other cars)
I now use the spc bar with the side chains and on my Model A, both system showe more or less the same result.
 

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nkaminar said:
Back in the day there was a machine that you could drive over to measure the toe-in. It had two sets of teeth that would move in response to the front wheels slipping sideways as you drove over them. There was a big gauge that would display the toe-in. I have not seen any of these machines in over 60 years. I suspect that these machines were not all that accurate which caused their disappearance.
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that was a scuff gauge. Bear Alignment equipment. we had one at a shop i worked at.

you can run a string down both sides of the car. using the rear wheels as a guide.
1/16" tow-in on each side. will work. watch your tire wear after, wear on the inside of the tire is towed out to far, wear on the outside of the tire is towed in too far.

the amount of toe needed is proportional to the amount of wear/clearances in your steering components. but forget i just said that because i am not going to explain it.
 
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I 3D printed these clips that attach to the tires with rubber bands. Measurement is taken with a tape measure. They have small posts on the underside that fit into the treads to help hold them in place and the one has a magnet to help hold the end of the tape measure in place.
IMG_6018.jpgIMG_6017.jpg
 
Make sure you get them to the same height when measuring with the clips at the rear and at the forward positions. You may want to paint a mark at the up and down centerline to be able to measure the height easily.
 
chain gauges, tread measurements, rim to rim measurements are all wrong.

THE CORRECT way to get the center of the tire is to scribe it.
with the wheel off the ground mount securely something sharp like an ice pick to something solid. move your new tool to the approximate center of the tire and rotate the tire to scribe a line all the way around. that is the line you measure to. and yes the point of your measurement has to be at the same height front to back.

i hear you all saying WHY.
your chain bar and all those other measurements are only good if the tire and sidewall, the wheel, the hub are absolutely true
because tires and wheels are not always true. bend in the rim, tire not on perfect, tire not true, tread is not accurate, lots of factors. The scribed line makes for a true measurement.


A suspension instructor lesson on the first day.
 
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You are correct that the tires, and rims, are not perfectly true. Normally the measurements are taken at the same points on the tires for this reason. The measurement is taken at the back first, then the car is rolled forward and the measurement taken at the front at the very same points and very same height. A flat cement floor is best. Don't do it on cobble stones.

Related: When I did my caulk test to determine the best tire pressure, the print on the pavement showed the effect of camber. The inside portions of the tires showed less caulk on the pavement.
 
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