Tips for a new buyer?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Jason, welcome!
If you buy a running/driving car, DON'T assume anything until you verify EVERYTHING. I bought with no written or verbal history, older restoration, maybe '60's to '80's??? Engine rebuilder's brass placque dated '87. Virtually new engine runs perfect! Trans & diff sounded a little odd, each had only 1/4 cup gear oil, no damage, someone just forgot or died?? Steering, front end, brakes, springs, shocks, etc, superb, EXCEPT drag link reversed, with great loosness in pitman arm end, haven't taken it apart yet, probably has inner parts loaded incorrectly. The parts in that end loads differently than the other 3 rod ends.
My point is, after you buy a car, check EVERYTHING! An ooold guy gave a Model A to a friend 'cause he was too old & weak to steer it! Guess what? The friend couldn't drive it either, steering gearbox, king pins, etc were almost seized. After new fittings, greasing, soaking stuff, BRASS hammer blows, foul words, that dude drove very well! You know that old saying about ASSUMING---------Bill W. (Also pics of seating for more leg room)

 

[Bill in Al]

Welcome and tudors are just fine! When we're on tours,my better half gets in the back seat, folds up the front passengers seat and has all kinds of room. ( much more peaceful up front too!)

 

[Terry Longest]

Buy one that runs and drives. That way you can enjoy it as you get it up to the standard you want. Mom and the kids won't enjoy one that is not drivable. Good luck!

 

[John LaVoy]

Welcome to the barn and the hobby. You might look for a local club to visit. Perhaps find a local car show and visit with a few people that have the body style you are looking into. The four door sedan has become a very popular tour car style because of the room. But the roadsters and phaetons still offer a lot of fun.

Since you found this site you can ask questions and get answers. You might want to visit www.mafca.com to see what cars are being offered for sale in the hobby. ebay tends to be a little off the wall and hard to justify what some of the cars sell for there.

Deciding what you plan on doing with the car is probably your first decision, show, drive etc. Then what fits your family needs as to room and weather conditions. I happen to like the 28-29 style and found the town sedan has the leg room mentioned above even if it is a 29.

 

[Number98]

I want to thank everyone for their great responses to my post! I really appreciate the information and direction. I also like seeing the pictures you shared with me, great for some reference. I decided that I am going to start hitting some shows this spring and summer and talk to some folks, check out some cars and go from there.

I ordered a few catalogs from some suppliers so I can start getting a feel for prices and parts availability. I did join the MAFCA also based on the recommendations here. I also reached out to a buddy who owns a 31 coupe. I figure he will have some input on things for me as well.

As for the running/driving versus a project debate, I am just going to look for the best deal. I am always out in my shop working on a project, I think the wife likes having me out of her hair most of the time anyway! Actually, she gets out there and helps me a good bit too because she has always been into old cars, her dad built and showed 60’s muscle cars kinda like I have been doing for years. But, I build them, enjoy them for a little while and sell them. I want to pick up an A so I can build it for me and keep it…

Anyway, thanks guys (especially PS for your lengthy but well put post)! I will keep everybody posted and I am sure I will have tons of questions before and after I buy!

Jason

 

[1930artdeco]

Welcome to the club! It might help if you post where you are from this way a FB may be able to come over and give a hand. I started on Mustangs and moved to A's as Dad gave me his after I graduated. Something to remember as you are new to these cars.

1) Some special tools are required to rebuild the engines and brakes. So depending on where you live this could be expensive. But then again you just NEED the new tools don't you!

2) You will become an expert at everything: electrical, mech and upholstery.

Mike

 

[Kevin in NJ]

First do you know what the factory Model A was designed to do?

This car is about history and the first history you need to understand is what the car can be.

From the service letters you would find out Ford expected the dealer to show the customer that the car could do 60 MPH, that it had great brakes and to not baby the car. When the car is properly restored mechanically the car is comfortable to drive 60+ MPH, will get in the low 20's for MPG and feels like it wants to stop confidently (keep in mind it has drum brakes and a small tire contact patch).

Now most cars the people are going to tell you first I am not correct and that you should not expect much over 45. When you find a car like that then you should budget about $8000 for mechanical repairs (depending on your resources and what you have to outsource the 8k number is for paying someone to do the repair properly). You have to learn the Model A was built in a different manner then the later cars and you must return many parts to original dimensions that required .001" or better accuracy.

You can quickly evaluate the car.

First does it have shocks? No shocks with good springs limits the safe top speed (in my experience) to about 25 MPH. Look at the front axle and if it is up above the front splash apron (on 30-31) then you know the spring is most likely weak. A new A and ones with good springs you expect to see about 1/2 the front axle. If there are no shocks and the car does not feel like it is going to bounce off the road at 25 MPH then the springs worn or need lubrication.

While you are looking at the chassis. If you see rust trails at places like the front spring perch to axle then you know you have a loose joint.

Pull the top of the wheels and look for the place of movement. You are likely to find a little. There should be none at the king pins.

Grab the wheel front and back and wiggle. Where is there play. Does the pitman arm move on the sector shaft. Does the sector shaft move in the steering box? How much free play is there in the wheel. I have seen up to a 1/2 turn of free play on cars. A couple of inches should be a limit.

How much does it vibrate? Can you talk in a normal voice while driving? The engine original did not vibrate much because it was put together with a lot of precision machining. One car that was professionally restored was so loud when you drove it that you could not talk. The professional reused heavily pitted bearings in the ******.

Does it have lots of modern repairs? The modern repairs seem to break down more than a properly restored to original chassis. It also is an indication that the owner is trying to fix problems and does not understand how to work on the A. Other than lubrication, and in frequent battery change, and occasionally adjusting of the points you should expect a properly restored A to last decades before needing parts (depending on how much you drive).

Modern changes that seem to have a net positive to the car. A voltage regulator, a burn out proof condenser, a new two blade fan, and a high compression head. Note, the original two blade fan can be safe as it will tell you it has problems and if you select a good one you should be fine. It is not easy to do this so the new ones are a good option for those who want some peace of mind.

When reading the various book and 'shop manuals' keep in mind they all have errors and to not trust them for fine details. In fact one example, in Les Andrews Vol 1 he has the wrong diameter for the steering sector. This is propagated in to the Bratton's catalog and has not been fixed even after I brought it to their attention a few years ago. I also find all the shop manuals do not properly tell you how to evaluate the used parts to tell if they are usable. I recommend buying both shop manuals on the market and ignore the sections where they tell you to do some modern conversions like to modern points. The manuals give you a good idea on how to get stuff apart and back together. Les has great drawings and the other one has some of the Ford prints with dimensions.

Also be careful with what is printed in the 2 Model A magazines. There are some errors and no so smart things to do to your car.

You need to take time to learn about the car. You can easily buy a car for too much money and put even more into making it safe to drive. I know 2 local guys that bought professionally restored cars at top buck and spent $5000 to $8000 fixing the chassis so the car was safe to drive.

 

[eagle]

One thing to watch out for in a Fordor sedan, they are completely wooden framed. If the doors are sagging, LOOK OUT! I didn't know anything about them when I bought mine and I was lucky. The wood structure is all original and in new car condition. However, if I was looking now, knowing what I do, I would be very careful about the Fordor. It would be a huge job to replace a rotten wood kit in a Fordor. Nuff said. The later slant windshield sedans are steel bodied. As far as the seats in the Fordor are concerned, I moved mine back about 2-3 inches and it is very comfortable, I'm 6' 3" tall. My brother has a Tudor, his has more room in the front than mine did originally. Especially after reversing the seat brackets, an easy job. The body is all steel structure on the Tudor as well. I would rather have to weld in steel than replace a wooden birdcage any day, just me...

 

[V4F]

except for the butt checks , the tudor has the longest doors , ez in & out . seat folds forward for ez access to the rear seat . i had a tudor for years & loved it . lap belts kept the wife in her seat fine , but a little modification would make them great ! drivers seat moves front - back . good luck ............

 

[clocey]

This is a great thread. In the last month I bought my first A, a '30 Fordor Murray. I did some looking around but maybe not as much as I should have, but I feel that I ended up with pretty much what most are recommending, a running all original in great shape project. The driver's side sill plate will need to be replaced, but other than that, (and the windshield header) the wood is solid.
I did get in contact with a local antique Ford club before making the purchase and shared photos with a member for advice. Time will tell how good of a purchase I made, but I am looking forward to working on it as I am the type who enjoys the journey more than the destination!
Curt

 

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Greetings Jason, you will not regret having a Model A. I've had Plymouths, Corvairs and V-8 Fords but Model A's I enjoy the most. The tudor is definately the way to go for a family guy. They can be bought and restored reasonably and being more plentiful than a fordor are usually lower in price. I would check Ebay for cars near you and also Craigslist, club magazines and Hemmings Motor News. Let me know if you need help but remember one can lead to two and go from there. Barry B./ Ma.

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

When you find a hot deal, don't let it get away.

Buy the best, most complete running Model A you can afford.

I also like the Tudor. It has room for luggage and passengers, good styling, and the driver's seat can easily be moved back for longer legs. Not much wood to worry about is a big plus. Just don't buy one with a puke green color and knock me out of the running for the "ugliest Model A award".

 

[Dick Webber]

I've owned a 29 tudor for 52 years. It's a great choice. The bodies are structurally all steel vs lots of wood in some of the 4 doors. I'm tall, and entry in a tudor is much easier than a coupe or roadster. I reversed my seat brackets which gave 3" more leg room.

I think it is wise to buy a running car. If it leaks a big puddle at the rear main bearing, that is a possible sign of babbitt troubles.

These are simple, tough, affordable cars, and I think many are in the hands of aging owners or disinterested heirs. In my view, a good place to look.

Good luck