Timken, united states = China
- Thread starter Talkwrench
- Start date
I think we need to take a better look at ourselves. The first thing we think about is where the lowest cost supplier can be found. We see that code consistently in questions such as "where is a good place to buy my pistons or valves or rods or whatever". The allure of lower cost cars, parts, machinery, etc. has always attracted buyers. The supplier of high quality USA produced(meaning very expensive) items can continue in business, with a reduced sales picture, for a period of time but soon he realizes he must either fold the business or find a lower cost method for obtaining his goods if he is going to be competitive. We ***** about companies moving to Mexico or offshore but don't realize the part we play. If we were willing to pay the prices the American work force and government regulations creates within the manufacturing of a product there would be no need for "outside" suppliers.
As an aside, when I look around my shop, I see a manual milling machine made in Taiwan, a CNC milling machine made in Japan, Vises, torches, various air grinders, sanders, lathe chucks, mill cutters, grinding wheels, drill presses, air compressors, hydraulic press cylinders, clocks, and many more items I can't think of right now which are not USA made. The fact is almost all my USA manufactured machinery is "old" most of it purchased "used" in order for me to justify owning it. Some of the name tags no longer in business. So, I am as "bad" as anyone else at looking for low cost over supreme quality.
As an aside, when I look around my shop, I see a manual milling machine made in Taiwan, a CNC milling machine made in Japan, Vises, torches, various air grinders, sanders, lathe chucks, mill cutters, grinding wheels, drill presses, air compressors, hydraulic press cylinders, clocks, and many more items I can't think of right now which are not USA made. The fact is almost all my USA manufactured machinery is "old" most of it purchased "used" in order for me to justify owning it. Some of the name tags no longer in business. So, I am as "bad" as anyone else at looking for low cost over supreme quality.
I recently bought Timken front wheel bearings from Rock Auto. Of the 16 components, 15 were US made and 1 was Made in Canada. This was marked on the bearing.
Talkwrench
Well-known member
Did it say on th box or part, USA . Or United States of America?
BILL WZOREK
Well-known member
tiger.1000
Well-known member
What racial slur ? I didn't see one???
BILL WZOREK
Well-known member
It's all about profit for a Big chunk of companies now unfortunately.
Martin.[/QUOTE]
PROFIT = money left over after all expenses have been paid ~~
So we can say we are all guilty of trying to make a PROFIT not just a Big chunk of companies.
We all want to have $$$ left over after we buy a WIDGET or PART so some times we shop with PRICE in mind not QUALITY.
Martin.[/QUOTE]
PROFIT = money left over after all expenses have been paid ~~
So we can say we are all guilty of trying to make a PROFIT not just a Big chunk of companies.
We all want to have $$$ left over after we buy a WIDGET or PART so some times we shop with PRICE in mind not QUALITY.
Bill,
What I ment to imply, is with smaller companies I've worked for, there is a feeling that we won't sell or provide and inferior product or service for the big profit margin. We'll do a better job, or sell better stuff that has a smaller profit margin, but better customer satisfaction.
I know this may prevent or slow the company growing. But that's ok, we know all our customers by name, and they know us by name, and we can make them all feel the personal touch.
We don't need or want to get bigger, we have work queuing out the door. And folk will happily wait their turn, for good service. We also have the privilege of being able to turn away work that we don't want to do, or because of the attitude of the customer. It's a very nice situation to be in, often times the turned away work keeps coming back until we agree to do it.
Maybe it's a "back woods" or "olden days" rationale, but it nice.
When I have thought price first and quality last, it allways comes and bites me on the bum. And end up buying the good one, and deep sixing the cheap one. I try not to do that now.
Hope you understand my ramblings.
I do believe we're all partially to blame for the cheap stuff, I'm saying there is another way, and it is good business. Might not make you a millionaire, but you sleep very well.
Martin.
What I ment to imply, is with smaller companies I've worked for, there is a feeling that we won't sell or provide and inferior product or service for the big profit margin. We'll do a better job, or sell better stuff that has a smaller profit margin, but better customer satisfaction.
I know this may prevent or slow the company growing. But that's ok, we know all our customers by name, and they know us by name, and we can make them all feel the personal touch.
We don't need or want to get bigger, we have work queuing out the door. And folk will happily wait their turn, for good service. We also have the privilege of being able to turn away work that we don't want to do, or because of the attitude of the customer. It's a very nice situation to be in, often times the turned away work keeps coming back until we agree to do it.
Maybe it's a "back woods" or "olden days" rationale, but it nice.
When I have thought price first and quality last, it allways comes and bites me on the bum. And end up buying the good one, and deep sixing the cheap one. I try not to do that now.
Hope you understand my ramblings.
I do believe we're all partially to blame for the cheap stuff, I'm saying there is another way, and it is good business. Might not make you a millionaire, but you sleep very well.
Martin.
BILL WZOREK
Well-known member
Scooder :
I under stood what you were saying ,And your last paragraph is the point I was trying to say.
I under stood what you were saying ,And your last paragraph is the point I was trying to say.
Charlie ny
BANNED
Aside from the metallurgy which is easy to short cut and tough to find the tolerance
issue in most cases can be uncovered. Diameters, inside and outside, and angle of
contact. When possible I use blueing to check angle of contact if at final assembly
something does not have a good feel. The angle contact on Timkens is measured
in seconds not degrees.
Charlie ny
issue in most cases can be uncovered. Diameters, inside and outside, and angle of
contact. When possible I use blueing to check angle of contact if at final assembly
something does not have a good feel. The angle contact on Timkens is measured
in seconds not degrees.
Charlie ny
Cool.
This written word is not as clear as spoken word face to face. Especially with these two countries divided by the same language.
It was me not understating you fully.
Martin.
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Ross F-1
Well-known member
Yes, I read it all the way thru, and it makes me sick. "Activist investors" made $188 Million by forcing Timken to split up, all the while whining about the Timken CEO taking $9 mill a year out of a company he worked hard to keep afloat, and while making substantial contributions to the community. What did the "activists" do to earn their money? They produced nothing.
Graeme / New Zealand
Well-known member
SofaKing
Well-known member
I cannot leave unchallenged the notion that I, as a consumer, am responsible for the wretched quality of the products in the marketplace. Henry Ford said you can have any color you want, as long as its black. He also waited 10 years longer than his competitors to provide hydraulic brakes. If you wanted a Ford you bought a black one or got mech brakes or you bought something else. As a consumer I can chose only from what is in the marketplace. No one ever left the house thinking, "lets see how big a piece of cr@p I can buy today and save 5 cents". Production was relocated from the US for corporate profit's sake and nothing more. When trash is all there is to choose from, that's what you get, or nothing. Or like everyone on this forum, you go searching for NOS or good used originals and you joyfully pay 10-20x what they cost to make and consider yourself lucky to make the score.
We get what we get because that is what they are selling. They sell what they sell to make money for themselves, a profit, and the bigger the better, not to make us happy. We get low quality because management decided they can make a bigger profit selling cheaply made products. It could be otherwise, Honda's a high quality car but people will pay more for an Acura. It wasn't the unions, my last Chevrolet was built in Mexico, my last Toyota in Indiana. Which one of those company's CEO gets 1000X as much salary as the guy on the production line? As for gov't regulations, stop and consider, why is there a law limiting the amount of fecal matter in a loaf of bread?
As for giving consumers what they want, why are there dozens of power ratings for a single engine displacement? Who ever went to the dealer and said " Hell no I don't want that 300 HP 5.0L in my station wagon, please give me the nutless 165HP version!" The consumer is not nearly as powerful as we have been told in determining the market.
We get what we get because that is what they are selling. They sell what they sell to make money for themselves, a profit, and the bigger the better, not to make us happy. We get low quality because management decided they can make a bigger profit selling cheaply made products. It could be otherwise, Honda's a high quality car but people will pay more for an Acura. It wasn't the unions, my last Chevrolet was built in Mexico, my last Toyota in Indiana. Which one of those company's CEO gets 1000X as much salary as the guy on the production line? As for gov't regulations, stop and consider, why is there a law limiting the amount of fecal matter in a loaf of bread?
As for giving consumers what they want, why are there dozens of power ratings for a single engine displacement? Who ever went to the dealer and said " Hell no I don't want that 300 HP 5.0L in my station wagon, please give me the nutless 165HP version!" The consumer is not nearly as powerful as we have been told in determining the market.
itslow
Well-known member
It's a case of both, not solely one or the other.
I work for an OEM of large equipment. If every single part on our equipment was produced in the US, the machine would be priced so high that only a very few could/would purchase it. That, obviously, is not a good situation, so a balance has to be struck between sourcing locally vs. overseas.
Corporations are not charities. They have to be able to turn enough of a profit to keep the doors open, be able to reinvest in the company, and (hopefully) "stockpile" enough cash to keep the company afloat during the down times. Otherwise, you, me, and thousands of other folks will be without jobs.
The guy who cares more about getting 38 mpg in his Accord than going from 0-60 in 3.9 seconds in a CTS-V? There are more of them (non-"car people") than us. Hence the reason why (affordable) V8 and RWD cars are so hard to find now.
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Mike51Merc
Well-known member
There is nothing wrong with making a profit. The problem when Wall Street gets involved is that the focus shifts from long term profits to short term profits.
In other words, instead of building a company for longevity in the marketplace, their only concern is meeting the next quarter's numbers and keeping the share price high.
In other words, instead of building a company for longevity in the marketplace, their only concern is meeting the next quarter's numbers and keeping the share price high.
BILL WZOREK
Well-known member
SofaKing:
This is not a dig or trying to start a fight. It's just my opinion.
The company's are no longer run by the a President , At one time president was the guy that had the Idea & started the business .
He knew the NUTS & BOLTS of the business but not how to RUN A BUSINESS
When he wanted to up grade or expand he would go to his local bank for$$$
When the amount of $$$ he wanted was more then they were comfortable with loaning he was told he could have it BUT they needed someone they
choose to run the business. He ( the president ) was ok with that because
all he cared about was the NUTS & BOLTS of the business
The guy now running the business ( given the title CEO ) In many cases
knew nothing about the NUTS & Bolts of the business But KNEW he had to answer to the bankers & make $$$ Not WIDGETS that the President cared about.
Now the time came for more company growth the amount of $$$ need was more then the local bank could handle. So they went else where
AKA the Stock market.
They could not sell parts of the business to the new investors because they did not own the business but in this case the president still owned it.
But what they could sell is % of the profits.
Now the CEO has to answer to a larger group the STOCK MARKET !!!
So now BIG BUSINESS is run by WALL STREET
Not the president / the workers / the unions / or even the CEO for that matter.
So YES we have the final say in what is produced & the Quality of the WIDGET
It is called WANT & NEED
Do you WANT the WIDGET for your car & willing to except a lesser Quality.
Or do you really NEED to buy the lesser Quality WIDGET.
If we say we will not except the lesser & don't buy it / there will be only one buyer the SCRAP YARD ~ and there is no PROFIT in that ~
If you don't think we have the final say on the outcome.
How with your next breath can it be said YOUR VOTE MATTERS
( SORRY ABOUT THE POLITICAL IMPLCATION THERE )
Sorry about the rambling here time for more SHOCK THEROPY & get in the garage & get old grease under the fingernails.
