Timing/Wiring Please HELP!!!

B

Banky

Senior Member
Hi all, I have a weird issue I cant' figure out. Let me start with the background:

1930 Model A stocker (mostly), I've done the following
-6V Generator
-Modern points
-NEW wiring harness
-Updated starter (not by me) looks just like original, but it has a button on the cel you can push to start the car. Also no longer a foot pedal start, I need to hook up a starter button. That's another issue not tackled yet. This starter is live wether the key is on or off.

I have both Les books and have studied them to death, and watched his youtube video.

Here's were my Saturday fun ended.
When the points touch, the starter engages??? I followed Les's wiring instructions to the tee, I believe anyway.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Thanks all,
Banky in PA
 
If it is wired like original the ignition switch has nothing to do with the starter. Is it
possible that you have an ignition switch with a start position?? Can you describe how the car is wired.

Bob
 
I agree with Bob--as usual. With your mods, the sky's the limit on what all might be wrong. It sounds like the ignition current is wired to activate a starter solenoid--all highly non-original.

Did the car ever run ok in your experience, and, if so, tell us EVERYTHING you did to it since then.

Steve
 
if you put in a starter button , you need a ford starter selonoid . need more info .. steve
 
When i got the A the key wasnt hooked up. There was a power turn on on the dash, and a push button start. When i installed a new original style wiring harness i did away with that stuff. The key only has two posts on the back, and only seems to be on and off?? I wired it according to Les's book.

New ignition cable as well. Not pop out style.

Please keep the help coming! Ill post picts tomorrow evening.

Thanks guys!
 
OK, I got some picts! I thought it was pretty cut & dry, except for the odd ball starter?

This pict shows the generator, starter and new wiring harness.
IMG_0067.jpg


This is a closer look at the starter. Not the push button on the front of the cel.
IMG_0068.jpg


This pict shows my dist. with modern points and new ignition cable that looks like orig.
IMG_0068.jpg


Here's the back of my instrument panel. Black wire on top post of key switch is the ignition wire to dist.
IMG_0070.jpg


THANKS AGAIN ALL for your help! I can't wait to fire this ol girl up.
Banky
 
the yellow wire should hook up to the battery cable. and the starter switch should hook up were the yellow wire was.the way it is I think your points are activating the solenoid
 
Al Bass said:
the yellow wire should hook up to the battery cable. and the starter switch should hook up were the yellow wire was.the way it is I think your points are activating the solenoid
Click to expand...
correct

You have two choices, wire the solenoid that I see on your starter correctly or disconnect the solenoid and the large flat connector from the solenoid to the starter and replace the foot switch.

A solenoid has two circuits. One circuit goes to the starter button. When the button is pushed, the coil of the solenoid is activated and a plunger closes the contacts to put voltage to your starter. Your starter button should be wired to turn the solenoid on.

Your solenoid has two large contacts and one small contact. The large ones are for the starter and the small one is for the button. What I am calling the large wire is the flat connector you currently have wired from the solenoid to the starter. One thing that may be confusing you is that the Les Andrews diagram does not show a foot switch or solenoid. The foot switch would be between the battery and the starter.

You should draw out the circuit diagram that your car actually has for the button. I think the button is not hooked up to the solenoid.

You have the battery to the solenoid and the solenoid to the starter wired correctly. Your problem is that the yellow wire should go to - on the battery with a solenoid. Your button should be wired to the solenoid where the yellow wire currently is. The button is not on the Les Andrews diagram.

Think of the solenoid as an electrical version of the floor starter switch. Instead of your foot completing the circuit to the starter, the plunger of the solenoid does when activated by the button.

Email me if you want to keep the solenoid and I will give you my phone number.

I added a solenoid to my 28 rpu when my foot switch stuck in the on position several times leaving my starter running constantly.

It would also be advisable to add a fuse to your yellow wire.

Solenoid.jpg
 
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A wire goes from small terminal on solenoid to a grounding type push button.I can see where the starter would try to engage every time the points closed!Personally,I would rather use the original switch.I have yet to wear out an original switch in almost 60 yrs of driving A,s.Some repop switches are poor,so get a good one.
 
As it is wired now the ignition circuit is wired into the starter circuit, they must be separate of each other.

The yellow wire is the ignition feed, and should be on the battery side of the solenoid. A wire from the small terminal of the solenoid goes to one side of the momentary switch, and another wire from the other side of the momentary switch to the on side of the ignition switch.

With the ignition switch in the on position, power is put to the momentary switch. Activating the momentary switch sends power to the solenoid closing the starter circuit. When the ignition switch is off there is no power to the momentary switch, and the starter circuit will not function.
 
If the ignition is stock you don't want any other wires connected to the ignition switch as it is the ground path from the points to the coil.

Bob
 
Bob C,
You are correct, the ignition switch is the ground path.

I should have said ground path instead of power. The solenoid is being powered at the starter.

I wired my car through the ignition for safety reasons, you could take the momentary switch to a known ground and it will work as well, but the starter circuit will be able to be energized with the ignition off.
 
Silvertop,
If the engine stopped with the points open wouldn't you lose your ground
to the solenoid start button?

Bob
 
Bob C,
No Bob, you would not lose your ground to the ignition circuit or the starter solenoid circuit, they are sharing a common ground.

The battery positive terminal is connected to the chassis, body, and engine drive line. The negative terminal is connected to all load, charging, starting, lighting, and ignition. It is the function of switches and relays to complete this circuit. The starter solenoid, being a simple relay, does not draw high amperage and can safely be on a shared ground. In this case the ignition switch.

I would also add that when adding accessories, do not wire directly through the switch if it has a medium to high amp draw, this is the place for a relay to be added into the circuit. This is the cause of most car fires, overloading switches and not using fuses.

Ray
 
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