Timing question

L

lspogue01

Junior Member
Tried to re-time my 30. Used the procedure in Les Andrews book. I get the points open and set to .020. I feel the timing pin go into the slot in the timing gear. The light is on but when I turn the shaft CW the light never goes off. It get's dim but never completely goes out - and now it won't fire at all. Did I mess up the points or consider or screw something else up?
 
Points set to full open of .020", light does not go completely out when points closed? Hmm... Point block not grounding well enough to the plate? Points screw not grounding well in block? Small amount of semi-conducting crud on points?
 
Look very closely at the points and make sure they really are closed. Mine did same and turned out that they looked closed but they were not quite. Light flickered but did not go out.
 
I would recommend disregarding all of the timing instructions. I would first remove all of the spark plugs and set the points, I set mine at .022 Thats twenty two thousants. Turn the engine untill the timing pin drops in place. Adjust the points cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip points at the number one contact in the distributor cap. The rotor tip needs to point exactly in this manner after the screw that holds the points cam is tightened and not be able to rotate in the clockwise direction at all. In other words let all of the rotational backlash be in the counter clockwise direction. If you have full movement of the breaker plate in both directions you should be good to go. If not and you have the two tooth steering column, loosen and rotate the steering column tube untill you have full retard and advance in the rear windoiw of the distributor cap.
 
For Timing the engine, I use the Ford Service Instructions. The additional use of the light or voltmeter to set the timing using the actual opening of the points is better than setting the timing to a picture of what a "typical" TDC looks like.

The method in the Andrews book set the timing to be "a little" retarded at Top Dead Center. The method at Marco's site (excellent) sets the timing to be 0 for the lever all the way up at TDC.

The most important thing to do during the timing is to take out the backlash in the distributor. Tom and Purdy talk about this.

Setting the points to the "actual" opening of the points using a light\meter is more work and since you adjust the timing while driving, it's not as critical, but for me...the Model A is a Hobby and worth the extra work of setting the timing the way that Ford Recommended.

Marc
 
Yes, acording to Ford specs .018 to .022 gives a range of a few thousants , one of these settings can get timing exact . If the points cam is slightly off as many have been found to be or if you went past the timing dimple, even a small amount, the timing still won't be exact. To put it simple, Wider gap within specs advances the timing because the points will open a bit quicker. I'm more interested in quicker throttle response and faster accelleration, advanced timing will help in that respect. Wider gap within specs will also give more time before wear on the rubbing block will cause the points to have to be reset. On the other hand, advanced timing caused by wider points gap can effect idle. If the slowest idle is more important,, maximum points gap can have a slight negative effect. Never set the points with more gap than .022 or you will probably get starter kickback. I allways just set the points first. Many will end up with retarded timing when they try to set timing by points gap
 
If you set the point gap first, then set the timing the timing will be correct regardless of where you set the point gap. If you change the point gap after setting the timing, that will change the timing.
 
How much more advance would you give an A if you were setting the car up to run at 6000 feet elevation?
 
Smog Tech said:
If you set the point gap first, then set the timing the timing will be correct regardless of where you set the point gap. If you change the point gap after setting the timing, that will change the timing.
Click to expand...

I allways set points gap first. The most important thing about timing is that the trailing edge of the rotor tip points at the number one contact with no clockwise backlash. The engine will still be in time with the points set anywhere within Ford specs of .018 to .022. Points gap will have a slight advance-retard effect because the spark occurs when the points open. The points gap can be adjusted anytime without having to go back through the timing pin points cam adjustment . The engine will still be in time if the rotor tip points correctly with all of the backlash in the counter clockwise direction. The owners manual doesn't mention backlash because when the model A was new there would have been very little if any backlash. Direction of backlash is SO important because the distributor rides on the clockwise end of the backlash. If clockwise backlash is allowed to remain, the timing will be retarded to the amount of clockwise backlash that remains

Most have problems with timing because though technically correct, timing instructions are unnecessarily confusing and difficult to follow . Because one of the highly recommended timing instructions shows where the rotor tip should point, doesn't mention the importance of backlash direction and says that the timing still won't be correct without going through a confusing operation with the spark lever retarded and points adjustment. I feel that many really knock themselves out trying to get the spark lever points adjust thing where they often say is spot on and end up messing up where the rotor tip ends up pointing. AS long as points gap is within spec , adjustment within specs is just a matter of fine tuning to suit the owners needs. Just trying to clear up an issue that many have.
 
I followed the above stated procedures which got me in the ball park and then ,ran it ,adjust ,ran it some more adjust some more ,etc,etc until I found the sweet spot .
 
I had to do that when I run the V8 points. I called it tweaking the timing. Thats what it took to find close enough timing. The method that I use is for original points. I never figured that the timing could ever be exactly the same as original if the V8 points are used. Some people like em. Like an old parts store and machine shop owner that I once knew would say , If you can use it, try it. If you can't use it, don't try it.
 
got a new set of points, set everything and it's running. Still rough but back to running. I think is my gauge is wide enough that I was hitting the points arm when setting them and they were really open to wide. I also noticed that the distributor needs to be rebuilt. While the shaft doesn't move side to side, the housing does move a little bit CW and CCW with the set screw all the way in.
 
The set screw isn't meant to be tight, but just touching the distributor, then hold it while you tighten the lock nut.

Is the distributor cast part moving, or the upper bakelite part moving due to having a loose fit to the cast?
 
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