Timing Gear

S

solsticerick

Junior Member
I still haven't got the car started, but I'm working on it!!

I tried to re time, but it won't start. I was told that I should double check that cylinder 1 was at top dead center; well I don't think that it was. The pin lines up with the dimple in the timing gear NEAR TDC of cylinder two. Is it possible that the gear has moved?

Should I re-time without utilizing the pin & timing gear?

Thanks!
 
Pull the cover and check for stripped teeth on the timing gear. If it is a fiber gear it could have jumped a few teeth.
 
It was running fine a month ago. Then... see my last thread Help! It won't run. MORE HELP!! (
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I have the original distributor.
 
Put the car in third gear, remove the distributor cap, then roll the car back and forth to see how many feet it rolls before the rotor starts turning in each direction. Let us know.
 
Your cam is way out of time! With pin in place, #1 should be exactly on TDC. Sounds like it is time for a new timing gear.
 
I rolled the car while inspecting the rotor. The rotor started moving immediately in each direction. In 12" of travel, the rotor moved from one cylinder to the next. This tells you something???

I then, brought the #1 piston to TDC and "tried" to re-time, but to no avail.
 
Saw one Model A that the Disti popped up and shaft was so worn out it could drop back down and engage at 180 degrees off. Had everyone stumped for a while......
 
solsticerick said:
I rolled the car while inspecting the rotor. The rotor started moving immediately in each direction. In 12" of travel, the rotor moved from one cylinder to the next. This tells you something???

I then, brought the #1 piston to TDC and "tried" to re-time, but to no avail.
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That still doesn't mean the timing gear does not have some stripped teeth. The cam gear could be stripped in a spot and the gears are re-enguaged.
 
solsticerick said:
I rolled the car while inspecting the rotor. The rotor started moving immediately in each direction. In 12" of travel, the rotor moved from one cylinder to the next. This tells you something???

I then, brought the #1 piston to TDC and "tried" to re-time, but to no avail.
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If the rotor turns right away then the camshaft gear teeth must be OK.
Put you finger over #1 spark plug hole and pull the crank up until you feel compression, then push the timing pin in until it goes into the dimple. Is the #1 piston now at the top? If not, then you need to fix the camshaft gear or crankshaft gear or both.
 
I agree with removing the side cover and checking ALL the cam gear teeth.. Its a quick easy task.. Then let us know what you find..
 
The rotor turning is irrelevant to the cam timing. I get the indication that the pin drops in the dimple when #2 is at the top. This will never get the engine timed no matter where or how the rotor is. The rotor has to be loosened and reset to fire when #1 is TDC.
 
James Rogers said:
The rotor turning is irrelevant to the cam timing. I get the indication that the pin drops in the dimple when #2 is at the top. This will never get the engine timed no matter where or how the rotor is. The rotor has to be loosened and reset to fire when #1 is TDC.
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Yes, that is what I believe. But, can I get it in time by ignoring the pin and dimple and just sight in TDC on #1?
 
Not if the cam gear and crank gear are out of time. The dimples on the gears have to be aligned. If they are out of time with each other they will never align and ignition timing cannot be set.
 
To dispel a stripped T gear why not crank the engine with the starter whilst watching the rotor spin, should it stop turning then you are sure of a stripped gear, if it stays turning then why not time the engine in the normal way with the pin and turn the distributor cam to number one and see if it runs.
 
Sounds good. If you can rotate the engine a couple of times and the rotor doesn't skip or stop you may be feeling the dimple wrong. Try to get the #1 piston to TDC and time the dist. If it don't work turn it 180 degrees till the piston is TDC and retime it. If this doesn't work, you have a gear problem.
 
To double check the timing gear dimple, you can remove #1 spark plug and then look into the spark plug hole into the #1 cylinder with a flashlight. You should be able to see the piston top if it is at TDC and also see the valves both closed for timing it. May need someone with good vision for this job...
 
solsticerick said:
Yes, that is what I believe. But, can I get it in time by ignoring the pin and dimple and just sight in TDC on #1?
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Remember, the #1 piston will be top dead center TWICE for each cam rotation, so you MUST use the dimple to make sure the piston is TDC on the firing stroke.
 
Tom, you are wrong. If both valves are closed the piston is on the firing stroke. Think about it, A model T doesn't have a timing mark. You just make sure the piston is 15 degrees past top dead center and both valves are closed and make the coil for #1 buzz. Timing done. This is why I like being a crossover mechanic/driver. You learn more than one way to get things done.
 
James Rogers said:
Tom, you are wrong. If both valves are closed the piston is on the firing stroke. Think about it, A model T doesn't have a timing mark. You just make sure the piston is 15 degrees past top dead center and both valves are closed and make the coil for #1 buzz. Timing done. This is why I like being a crossover mechanic/driver. You learn more than one way to get things done.
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:confused: I never mentioned valves, but yes, the valves will both be closed when the timing pin drops into the dimple, as they would have to be on TDC firing. So where am I wrong?:confused:
 
Both intake and exhaust valves are closed well before TDC while on compression stroke,, so,, if the cylinder is making compression just continue to rotate the crank until the piston is at TDC.. Then you can/could look for the dimple and the rotor position..
If the piston is coming to TDC but not making compression the valves are stating open on exhaust stroke..
It still doesn't take long to check the cam gear and probably should be looked at..
Another possibility could be that this monster has a model B timing cover,, but,, if I remember correctly that would only put the ignition timing about 20º off.. It sounds like this monsters timing is off more than that..
 
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