Is anyone familiar with these Timing fixtures? I have a Wasco and a KRW timing fixture. Both look good, nothing is bend and I have the right adapter plate. When I follow the original manuals and adjust my 41 crab distributor there is a timing difference of about 4 deg??? The little timing adjust scale on the distributor is in the middle when I use the Wasco so my feeling is to use this one. When test driving with the two different settings I don't notice a real difference in engine running.
Timing fixtures
- Thread starter RBuijs
- Start date
I am an Auto Electrician and have used something like six different brands of timers since 1962 on Ford V8 distributors. In my opinion the Wasco was the most accurate and well made of all. It is made in Canada and also sold in Australia by a company named Servex which is the one I have. I do have a Vane Australian distributor test machine similar to a Sun tester but rarely use it because the Servex unit is so easy to use. You need the original instruction brochure to be able to use it correctly. Regards, Kevin.
petehoovie
Well-known member
The Art Doctor
Senior Member
Do either of these have numbers or markings on them that could be used to search for them on eBay? Some sellers do not know a proper name (like "Ford Timing Fixture") and whatever numbers are on them is how they list them making the thing hard to find using only a proper name.
glennpm
Well-known member
For the KRW V-126
https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=16761
"Carcheologist,
I have tried to generally track the variations in the V126's, but have not seen enough of them to do so.
My understanding is (or was, prior to your post), that the early ones had a mark with an "F" next to it for each point where the points would open (firing point) in the rotation of the disc.
From the Ford Service Bulletins for 1938 to 1940, there are references to there being an early version of the V126 and a later one-the later having marks for setting up the Lincoln Flathead V-12 (you could send your early one to K.R. Wilson and for a charge they would modify it to accommodate the Lincoln distributor). Somewhere I have the book for 1932 to 1937-I now want to look in that one to see if it mentions the "F" marks.
Still later versions have the addition of a dwell scale, so that you can set the dwell on each set of points individually. This should be more accurate than just using feeler gauges.
These are mounted on a wooden box that is hinged and has a divided compartment/battery case for two "D" cell batteries. The newer ones I have seen have a metal instead of a wooden box.
I did a lot of research on this, starting with this forum, scouring the internet, and looking for videos (I have yet to find a video using the K.R. Wilson fixture).
This video from Mart’s Garage is very good. It shows how to set the timing using a somewhat similar Churchill timing fixture:
https://youtu.be/dnNbT8KV9HQ?si=wnuazeVdcnlybDfx
You can purchase copies of the instructions for the later K.R. Wilson v126’s from ebay (I did this and was immediately confused as my fixture did not have the Dwell Scale-I thought I had a part missing). I got a partial second machine later which had both the dwell scale and the adapter for the later "Crab" type distributor. When I repaired my V126 I combined the parts from both to get one good/working one with the Dwell Scale.
Below is a long, boring document describing what I did-again I am far from an expert on this (about as far as you can get) as I have done it exactly once now (I am preparing to repeat the experiment on the distributor I just took out of the car).
All of this this assumes that you have gone through the distributor completely, the advance mechanism has been lubricated and moves freely (including the pivot points for the weights and the small rollers/bearing), the shaft is not bent, someone has not "adjusted" the springs for the weights, and the cam is not worn. The points should be clean, new, and the contacts must be aligned and parallel so that good contact will be made.
On the “Diver’s Helmet” distributor, the ignition coil MUST be on the distributor. If you time it without, when it is installed and the contact spring presses down on the breaker plate, the timing will shift and you will have to start all over again.
This is a slightly different order than that shown in Mart’s video…
1) Make sure that the timing plate on the passenger side of the distributor is centered and tight.
2) Some people remove the vacuum brake at this point (I tried it both with and without and got the exact same results both ways).
3) Put the distributor on the V126, making sure that the tab on the distributor shaft drops into the slot on the rotating center of the fixture properly. Make sure that the distributor sits flat and stays flat during entire rotation of the wheel-This was the problem with mine-the distributor would not sit flat but rocked around as I rotated the wheel causing intermittent contact of the distributor base with the fixture. Mine appears to have been made from pieces of several V126's that were not entirely compatible-it took a while to understand this and correct it.
4) Touch the clip to any part of the distributor casing-the light should light
5) Insulate the Right/Passenger Side points with a small slip of paper
6) Rotate the wheel through two full turns in the direction of the arrow on the wheel to remove any backlash.
7) Attach the clip to one of the horizontal screws on the driver side/left hand set of points-the clip must not touch any part of the case and must not interfere with the movement of the points.
6) Rotate the wheel until the light just comes on. Move the dwell scale so that the zero mark lines up with one of the marks on the wheel.
7) Rotate the wheel slowly (always in the direction of the arrows). If the light stays on for exactly 22.5 degrees you are good. If not, you get to loosen the screws that lock the points, adjust the cam screw slightly, and repeat. Sometimes this goes easily, sometimes… not so much. Once you get it to 22.5 degrees tighten the locking screws and re-check.
8) Once the dwell is set for the driver side points, rotate the wheel very slowly and watch for the light to go out (this is the firing point). If it goes out at every “F” mark on ring, your timing is good, if not…see #9 below…
9) Loosen the timing plate screw very slightly-you want to just be able to slide it on the case.
10) Move the Timing Plate to the fully retarded position (toward the bottom of the distributor/counter-clock-wise as viewed from the top).
11) Rotate the ring until you can drop the timing pin into the hole in the ring for it. The lamp should still be on.
12) Gradually move the timing plate back the other way (clockwise) until the light just goes out.
13) Tighten the timing plate screw-if the lamp comes back on-readjust the timing plate and try again, but never move the ring backwards. The actual timing should now be set, but we are not finished with the dwell yet.
14) Remove insulation of Right/Passenger Side points
15) Install the insulation in the Left/Driver Side points
16) Set the dwell of the right side points in the same manner as above for the left side points to achieve 22.5 degrees.
17) Remove the paper insulator from the left side points. The combined dwell for both sets of points should measure at 35-36 (total duration the lamp is on).
18) Check to make sure that the firing point did not shift-if not-you are done!
If you get large variations (2-3 degrees or more) in timing as you rotate the wheel to the various "F" marks/firing points, it is an indication that the distributor shaft may be bent, the cam is uneven, etc. I chase one for a while and found out the shaft was bent-a replacement one corrected it.
Again, I am an amateur, so take this with a grain of salt...
This message was edited by RAK402 on 11-24-23 @ 3:48 PM"
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57002&postcount=2
For the Wasco, see the attached.
Glenn
https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=16761
"Carcheologist,
I have tried to generally track the variations in the V126's, but have not seen enough of them to do so.
My understanding is (or was, prior to your post), that the early ones had a mark with an "F" next to it for each point where the points would open (firing point) in the rotation of the disc.
From the Ford Service Bulletins for 1938 to 1940, there are references to there being an early version of the V126 and a later one-the later having marks for setting up the Lincoln Flathead V-12 (you could send your early one to K.R. Wilson and for a charge they would modify it to accommodate the Lincoln distributor). Somewhere I have the book for 1932 to 1937-I now want to look in that one to see if it mentions the "F" marks.
Still later versions have the addition of a dwell scale, so that you can set the dwell on each set of points individually. This should be more accurate than just using feeler gauges.
These are mounted on a wooden box that is hinged and has a divided compartment/battery case for two "D" cell batteries. The newer ones I have seen have a metal instead of a wooden box.
I did a lot of research on this, starting with this forum, scouring the internet, and looking for videos (I have yet to find a video using the K.R. Wilson fixture).
This video from Mart’s Garage is very good. It shows how to set the timing using a somewhat similar Churchill timing fixture:
https://youtu.be/dnNbT8KV9HQ?si=wnuazeVdcnlybDfx
You can purchase copies of the instructions for the later K.R. Wilson v126’s from ebay (I did this and was immediately confused as my fixture did not have the Dwell Scale-I thought I had a part missing). I got a partial second machine later which had both the dwell scale and the adapter for the later "Crab" type distributor. When I repaired my V126 I combined the parts from both to get one good/working one with the Dwell Scale.
Below is a long, boring document describing what I did-again I am far from an expert on this (about as far as you can get) as I have done it exactly once now (I am preparing to repeat the experiment on the distributor I just took out of the car).
All of this this assumes that you have gone through the distributor completely, the advance mechanism has been lubricated and moves freely (including the pivot points for the weights and the small rollers/bearing), the shaft is not bent, someone has not "adjusted" the springs for the weights, and the cam is not worn. The points should be clean, new, and the contacts must be aligned and parallel so that good contact will be made.
On the “Diver’s Helmet” distributor, the ignition coil MUST be on the distributor. If you time it without, when it is installed and the contact spring presses down on the breaker plate, the timing will shift and you will have to start all over again.
This is a slightly different order than that shown in Mart’s video…
1) Make sure that the timing plate on the passenger side of the distributor is centered and tight.
2) Some people remove the vacuum brake at this point (I tried it both with and without and got the exact same results both ways).
3) Put the distributor on the V126, making sure that the tab on the distributor shaft drops into the slot on the rotating center of the fixture properly. Make sure that the distributor sits flat and stays flat during entire rotation of the wheel-This was the problem with mine-the distributor would not sit flat but rocked around as I rotated the wheel causing intermittent contact of the distributor base with the fixture. Mine appears to have been made from pieces of several V126's that were not entirely compatible-it took a while to understand this and correct it.
4) Touch the clip to any part of the distributor casing-the light should light
5) Insulate the Right/Passenger Side points with a small slip of paper
6) Rotate the wheel through two full turns in the direction of the arrow on the wheel to remove any backlash.
7) Attach the clip to one of the horizontal screws on the driver side/left hand set of points-the clip must not touch any part of the case and must not interfere with the movement of the points.
6) Rotate the wheel until the light just comes on. Move the dwell scale so that the zero mark lines up with one of the marks on the wheel.
7) Rotate the wheel slowly (always in the direction of the arrows). If the light stays on for exactly 22.5 degrees you are good. If not, you get to loosen the screws that lock the points, adjust the cam screw slightly, and repeat. Sometimes this goes easily, sometimes… not so much. Once you get it to 22.5 degrees tighten the locking screws and re-check.
8) Once the dwell is set for the driver side points, rotate the wheel very slowly and watch for the light to go out (this is the firing point). If it goes out at every “F” mark on ring, your timing is good, if not…see #9 below…
9) Loosen the timing plate screw very slightly-you want to just be able to slide it on the case.
10) Move the Timing Plate to the fully retarded position (toward the bottom of the distributor/counter-clock-wise as viewed from the top).
11) Rotate the ring until you can drop the timing pin into the hole in the ring for it. The lamp should still be on.
12) Gradually move the timing plate back the other way (clockwise) until the light just goes out.
13) Tighten the timing plate screw-if the lamp comes back on-readjust the timing plate and try again, but never move the ring backwards. The actual timing should now be set, but we are not finished with the dwell yet.
14) Remove insulation of Right/Passenger Side points
15) Install the insulation in the Left/Driver Side points
16) Set the dwell of the right side points in the same manner as above for the left side points to achieve 22.5 degrees.
17) Remove the paper insulator from the left side points. The combined dwell for both sets of points should measure at 35-36 (total duration the lamp is on).
18) Check to make sure that the firing point did not shift-if not-you are done!
If you get large variations (2-3 degrees or more) in timing as you rotate the wheel to the various "F" marks/firing points, it is an indication that the distributor shaft may be bent, the cam is uneven, etc. I chase one for a while and found out the shaft was bent-a replacement one corrected it.
Again, I am an amateur, so take this with a grain of salt...
This message was edited by RAK402 on 11-24-23 @ 3:48 PM"
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57002&postcount=2
For the Wasco, see the attached.
Glenn
Last edited:
The Art Doctor
Senior Member
@Glenn
Thank you for your extensive post. I have a copy of the original manuals for both timing fixtures and have been using the KRW for some years. I bought the Wasco recently and restored it and just now I found out that there is a difference between them.
@Terry
Yes adjusting the timing should be done with the coil (or in my case adapter plate) mounted. Otherwise the timing will change when fitting the coil because the spring pushes against the breaker plate.
Thank you for your extensive post. I have a copy of the original manuals for both timing fixtures and have been using the KRW for some years. I bought the Wasco recently and restored it and just now I found out that there is a difference between them.
@Terry
Yes adjusting the timing should be done with the coil (or in my case adapter plate) mounted. Otherwise the timing will change when fitting the coil because the spring pushes against the breaker plate.
glennpm
Well-known member
Good and you're welcome.
The Art Doctor
Senior Member
This one just popped up. More than I want to spend for something I will probably use twice over the next 30 years.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3068266939...9&segname=11021&recoId=306826693976&recoPos=1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3068266939...9&segname=11021&recoId=306826693976&recoPos=1