Timing chain "slop"?

Run the RPM up to 2500 and look at the timing marks with a timing light, sloppy chains will give a timing mark that jumps around.

Second check is to pull the cap off the distributor, rotate the engine by hand while watching the rotor, reverse direction of rotation. If it takes a few degrees of rotation for the rotor to move the chain is a little sloppy.
 
To complicate things, there are several factors affecting this. One is , the mileage. 54K city miles is probably 150K highway miles. Second is, all timing sets are not created equal. There are several brands, and only a couple are good quality. The rest are chinese made crap, that wears out rapidly. Actually very rapidly. Most owners tend to look at the price first, and not the longevity factor. You get what you pay for. And you must remember, as the car gets older, and needs more and more attention, the choice is usually the cheap parts, just enough to get the job done.
Just put in a new timing set if is suspect, your car will run better, start easier, and get better mileage. And you won't ended up stranded because the cam gear stripped off in the middle of nowhere, it's raining, and you left your phone at home. It's not a big project. (Phew!)
 
I use a Cloyes Double Roller in everything I build. Never had one go bad, used in a Boss 302 under extreme race conditions and a street 351C with 137K on it.
 
The reason for this thread: My '65 352 has a hesitation just after leaving a stop.

If you stomp it hard it will lurch away from a stop sign/stop light and run fine. But a gentle, old lady style "tip toe" take off makes it stumble.

It "feels like" a weak accelerator pump circuit issue. But it has done the same exact thing with 3 different carburetors! I can minimize the hesitation/almost stall out/lurch with careful timing adjustments and maximum accelerator pump adjustments. There is NO "slop" in the current accelerator pump linkage! Changing out the accelerator pump diaphragm several times has made no difference.

A pertronix point elimination kit and their "flamethrower" coil made no difference.

A sloppy timing chain was suggested as a possible reason.

Any comments, suggestions would be appreciated. This issue is pizzing me off!
 
Doubt if it's an accel pump issue. It would be worse with a stomp start. Maybe use a timing light to see what the advance does when you open the throttle and it hesitates. Does it do it in neutral too, or just in gear when taking off ?

Sal
 
Could it be possible the vacuum advance canister on the distributor is bad :confused:
There's a quick and Dirty way to test it.
 
scicala said:
Doubt if it's an accel pump issue. It would be worse with a stomp start. Maybe use a timing light to see what the advance does when you open the throttle and it hesitates. Does it do it in neutral too, or just in gear when taking off ? Sal
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It also does it when in neutral.

The distributor (and vacuum advance canister) are new, appear to be working properly.


This one has be puzzled!
 
Put a timing light on it and try to create the hesitation in neutral. You never know unless you check it. It might show something and will eliminate one possibility.

Sal
 
In spite of all the rhetoric, for God's sake, just put in a timing chain set!!!! It's very easy to do on this engine, even if you have never done one before, it's about an hour's work. NOW at least you have one problem fixed. Next check the compression, the PROPER way, and then move on to the basic ignition parts, then look for obvious things like wire degradation and add on things. Save the carb for last after everything else is looked at. This is not a rocket science project, just a simple fix and diagnosis project that would take much less time than all of these posts and suggestions.
 
packrat5 said:
In spite of all the rhetoric, for God's sake, just put in a timing chain set!!!! It's very easy to do on this engine, even if you have never done one before, it's about an hour's work. NOW at least you have one problem fixed. Next check the compression, the PROPER way, and then move on to the basic ignition parts, then look for obvious things like wire degradation and add on things. Save the carb for last after everything else is looked at. This is not a rocket science project, just a simple fix and diagnosis project that would take much less time than all of these posts and suggestions.
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Step by step instructions for "Mr. Bad Wrench" (me) would be greatly appreciated.

After 3 different carbs, with the same results, I don't believe I have a carb problem.
 
You can also check the timing chain by slightly turning the crankshaft pulley clockwise and counterclockwise a couple inches either way. You can feel the slop in the chain this way.
 
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You can never become a mechanic by utilizing this forum without realizing this is just a forum, and nothing else. It's someones opinion, albeit well meaning, without knowing anything about your car. It's simply an opinion, or guess, without any real knowledge of what you are trying to put into print.
With that said, ALL engine problems begin with a compression check, however timing chains MUST be tight for a real timing check result. Period. Many "tune ups" and engine issues cannot be solved because the owner refuses to replace the timing chain, and can't believe the compression may not be right. This is the beginning process for ALL engine issues. Once this is corrected, or determined to be correct, you can move on. Now, you replace the plugs and wires. Stay away from those exotic platinum, and other types, they are not suited for your application. Just normal plugs of your favorite brand. My suggestion for a Ford is Motorcraft. Wires,,, none of that cheap chain store crap. It's ALL garbage. Again use Motorcraft stuff. (my opinion) Same for cap and rotor, and points. Start with points, you can upgrade later when the engine is running as it should.
When the cap etc. is off the distributor, remove the small cir-clip on top, (DON'T lose it!) and remove the cam, and breaker plate. Distributors need attention too, and never get it. Check the weights, and springs (one is looser than the other). Check for wear on the slots, they are usually worn, and the advance won't move freely, causing several driveablity problems.
Put it all back together, and run the engine until fully warmed up, set your curb idle at 600 rpm, remove the distributor vacuum line, and set your timing at the spec called for. At this point I must go back and say to check the harmonic balancer when it comes off for the timing chain, and look it over VERY carefully! It may be, well, will be worn, and the rubber might be slipped. This makes true timing readings impossible, and will require a new or rebuilt balancer before any thing else can be done. I would say that any balancer that is 50 years old, or more is junk.
Now when this is done, adjust your carb, cold and curb idle speed, and take it for a drive. Odds are, it will be good. If not, come back online
As a side note, stay away from the "racing stuff" you are not building a racing car. And don't modify, or change anything from original at least until the car is running okay again.
And don't whatever you do, stick your face, and your timing light into an engine running at 2500 rpm!!! You can get very seriously injured. Don't take the chance!
Carbs always seem to get the bad rap, and everyone is an "expert" on them. It's kind of a macho thing, like using a chain saw, or going hunting. I do about 30 carbs a year, and for the most part enjoy it, but while doing one, if I don't find anything wrong with the actual carb, I will NOT guarantee the work. Why? because it's not a carb issue that's causing the problem. Actually, I will feel the guy out first, and decide at the beginning if I will do the carb for him, or not.
 
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"
packrat5 said:
In spite of all the rhetoric, for God's sake, just put in a timing chain set!!!! It's very easy to do on this engine, even if you have never done one before, it's about an hour's work."



An hours work ? Don't know about that. Especially if never did one before.

I would say go for the simplest and cheapest checks or repairs first. You have had plenty of good suggestions here. Just don't throw parts at it without diagnosing first.
As far as I can tell re-reading all of these posts, the timing chain hasn't even been diagnosed yet. Don't change it if it's not sloppy. I don't think anything has been looked at yet.

Sal
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An FE engine timing chain can be changed in an hour. It's the simplest one ever. I've done it, I've seen it done many times, you don't even have to remove the radiator. Maybe I seem optimistic, but as a repairman, and manager in garages since 1958 will do that. ALL, repeat ALL diagnosis begins with compression check and timing chain. It's the downfall of many people, including garages, who just can't grasp this fact. As far as throwing parts at it, most of the stuff has probably been on the car since the Kennedy years. Right? And it's not about the easiest, or cheapest things first. Now THAT is throwing parts and money away.
 
Thanks for all you guy's opinions & advice!

As I have said before, this hesitation has been the same with 3 different, working fine on other cars, carburetors. At this point, I seriously doubt the problem is the carb.

I did a compression check on the car a year ago, variances within tolerance.

New spark plugs (pulled one today, looks fine), wires, dist cap & rotor, pertronix point elimination kit and their coil, 3 different motorcraft 4 barrel carbs tried. Starts almost instantly hot or cold, idles so smooth you can stand by the rear bumper and "count" each cylinder firing, never overheats, even with the factory A/C on.

Whatever the culprit is, it's getting worse. In less than 300 miles it's progressed from a slight hesitation that only I (no passengers) could feel to a problem so bad the car's become unsafe/untrustworthy for anyone except me to drive in traffic.
 
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