Tig welder
- Thread starter Mongo
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Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
The fact is you can do a weld with less heat and less filler material.
If you take the time to learn about metalworking, in particular how metal shrinks, you can put in patches and hardly use any filler. I have only been using some high build primer and leveling stuff I tig in place.
I Tig using .035" er70-s6 wire from my MIG. The ER70-S6 helps in small amounts help flow the metal, basically it helps clean the metal during the weld. I am pretty good about tight fitting patches now adays. The tig give full penetration and is so controlled I can run up to the edge. I plannish the weld with hammer on dolly work to reverse the shrinkage you always get with any weld. Run the file over the area to find high spot and work it level. I will also use the shrinking disk to help get everything in line.
You need a tig welder that has a foot or hand control. I have only used a HF unit so I can not comment on the scratch start units. Of course a autodarken helmet is crucial to good welds.
My biggest mistake was not spending the $$ for a TIG welder before I started my project. I did not know better at the time. The first time you lay in a weld and hammer it smooth and need no grinding you will just love it.
If you take the time to learn about metalworking, in particular how metal shrinks, you can put in patches and hardly use any filler. I have only been using some high build primer and leveling stuff I tig in place.
I Tig using .035" er70-s6 wire from my MIG. The ER70-S6 helps in small amounts help flow the metal, basically it helps clean the metal during the weld. I am pretty good about tight fitting patches now adays. The tig give full penetration and is so controlled I can run up to the edge. I plannish the weld with hammer on dolly work to reverse the shrinkage you always get with any weld. Run the file over the area to find high spot and work it level. I will also use the shrinking disk to help get everything in line.
You need a tig welder that has a foot or hand control. I have only used a HF unit so I can not comment on the scratch start units. Of course a autodarken helmet is crucial to good welds.
My biggest mistake was not spending the $$ for a TIG welder before I started my project. I did not know better at the time. The first time you lay in a weld and hammer it smooth and need no grinding you will just love it.
Rich in Tucson
Senior Member
Some of the new inverter units, some of which include other functions such as plasma cutting and stick welding, should get your attention if you are looking to purchase new. This site has all kinds of instructional videos, real world problem solving, and equipment reviews for welders of all kinds:
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/
It is worthwhile to spend some time there no matter what type of welding you are interested in.
Your question is not simply answered but better units typically have continuously adjustable settings for voltage, etc. and means to improve arc starting and stability; cheaper units have click stops which can work fine but may take more fiddling.
If you are looking for used equipment, the need to meet that deadline on April 15th shakes out a lot of good tools around here...
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/
It is worthwhile to spend some time there no matter what type of welding you are interested in.
Your question is not simply answered but better units typically have continuously adjustable settings for voltage, etc. and means to improve arc starting and stability; cheaper units have click stops which can work fine but may take more fiddling.
If you are looking for used equipment, the need to meet that deadline on April 15th shakes out a lot of good tools around here...
Leathernek
Senior Member
Not to hijack the thread or anything but it peaked my curiosity. My Grandfather gave me a Lincoln Power Mig 255....I've never really done any type of welding, but I'm just starting to learn. Anyways I heard that this machine wasn't good for welding thin sheetmetal on cars. Is that true? Which machine is the best all around for automotive purposes (sheetmetal and framework)- MIG, TIG, or Arc?
Absolutely untrue about welding sheetmetal. I do all my sheetmetal work with a mig and as I become more proficient with it, the weld hardness and metal shrinkage becomes less of an issue. Tig is the preferred welder but for ease of use, especially for a hobbyist, it's hard to beat the MIG.
Leathernek
Senior Member
Cool deal, exactly what i needed to hear! Thanks man!
It all is a matter of how much money you want to spend. At this time you are looking to do body work but in the future you will find many other things that you will want to weld so you should keep that in mind when looking for a unit to buy. Years ago when I bought my first welder, I asked a friend should I buy a 200 amp machine or a 300 amp. His answer was it is better to have the extra power because should you have a customer with an aluminum head that needs welding and you don't have the power for it, that job may help pay the rent.
30cabriolet
Senior Member
If you don't plan on welding aluminum, then Miller makes some excellent DC TIG welders. The two features that I would look for are high frequency start and pulse control. The pulse control helps to freeze the puddle when doing thin sheet metal minimizing burn through.
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
After laying down quite a bit of self taught MIG welds and then switching to TIG I got to say there is no comparisons. I have also seen many others MIG welds.
Few guys get the MIG welds right. Most are barely laying down a bead on top of the metal with not the best penetration. If you buy a cheap machine it gets worse as the right setting always between what the limited settings you get on the machine. You will always have to grind the MIG weld and it is harder to do pin point welds.
I layed down a lot of bad weld when I was trying to learn MIG in the pre internet days. With a decent quality TIG you can do wonders with limited learning. There are lots of deals on older larger units as the pro welders need to switch to computer controlled to deal with modern metals.
Then there is the grinding with the MIG. You also need to get behind the metal to grind if you are going to properly correct for shrinkage.
While I am at it. All welds cause shrinkage. Too many think that they can weld and prevent shrinkage. That is NOT the case. In some cases you may not see the shrinkage because of the panel shape, but any time you bring the metal up beyond the plastic stage you get shrinkage. When the metal turns blue there will be shrinkage is a general guideline. TIG limits the shrinkage because of the small heat affected zone. MIG tends to be a larger zone and there is too much metal so there is more work in prepping the metal to correct the shrinkage.
An alternative to a TIG welder is a small oxy act torch. To better use this torches you need to have 2 stage regulators for better pressure control and the proper rod. The ER series rods are for MIG/ TIG you need to have gas welding rods and very thin ones at that for best results. If you poke around metalworking websites you will find guys doing tig like work with larger heat affected zones with a gas torch.
I have both MIG and TIG. I will use the MIG when I need to build up jigs or some larger welding. It is much easier to hold with one hand and tack stuff when you creating. MIG is nice to fill small holes or rust pits that are deep. For hole filling I put a tig rod in the hole and start the arc on the rod and keep feeding the rod in the hole.
If you buy a MIG it is best to spend extra money for a unit with more control. The cheap ones have just a few steps to control the voltage. The better units have finer control. Gas is also essential. Having 220 means you have more duty cycle if you are doing bigger projects like building a trailer.
For a TIG unit you need one that has low amperage. I have a very old 1962 Miller 330 A/BP. It is very large and heavy and can weld the edge of two razor blades together with a skilled welder (not me). It can also weld up aluminum cylinder heads when needed. It was bought used ready to weld for $600. I see them in craigslist several times a year in that price range. They pros are selling them cause they have to get the new computer controlled units. Otherwise they would not be selling them. I know of one pro still using his as a back up. You can find the newer large TIG units for under $1500 ready to weld on Craigslist too. Keep in mind the large bottles are only rentals so you must have paperwork if the guy owns the bottle (which he probably does not own it). That is another thing to understand when buying used welders. Having paperwork and a good relationship with your local gas supplier is how a hobbyist gets his gas at a reasonable cost when dealing with used bottles. My brother and I have bought several tanks and they are pretty easy on us when we go in with a bottle for new gas. Sometimes they do not even care if the tank is out of date.
Few guys get the MIG welds right. Most are barely laying down a bead on top of the metal with not the best penetration. If you buy a cheap machine it gets worse as the right setting always between what the limited settings you get on the machine. You will always have to grind the MIG weld and it is harder to do pin point welds.
I layed down a lot of bad weld when I was trying to learn MIG in the pre internet days. With a decent quality TIG you can do wonders with limited learning. There are lots of deals on older larger units as the pro welders need to switch to computer controlled to deal with modern metals.
Then there is the grinding with the MIG. You also need to get behind the metal to grind if you are going to properly correct for shrinkage.
While I am at it. All welds cause shrinkage. Too many think that they can weld and prevent shrinkage. That is NOT the case. In some cases you may not see the shrinkage because of the panel shape, but any time you bring the metal up beyond the plastic stage you get shrinkage. When the metal turns blue there will be shrinkage is a general guideline. TIG limits the shrinkage because of the small heat affected zone. MIG tends to be a larger zone and there is too much metal so there is more work in prepping the metal to correct the shrinkage.
An alternative to a TIG welder is a small oxy act torch. To better use this torches you need to have 2 stage regulators for better pressure control and the proper rod. The ER series rods are for MIG/ TIG you need to have gas welding rods and very thin ones at that for best results. If you poke around metalworking websites you will find guys doing tig like work with larger heat affected zones with a gas torch.
I have both MIG and TIG. I will use the MIG when I need to build up jigs or some larger welding. It is much easier to hold with one hand and tack stuff when you creating. MIG is nice to fill small holes or rust pits that are deep. For hole filling I put a tig rod in the hole and start the arc on the rod and keep feeding the rod in the hole.
If you buy a MIG it is best to spend extra money for a unit with more control. The cheap ones have just a few steps to control the voltage. The better units have finer control. Gas is also essential. Having 220 means you have more duty cycle if you are doing bigger projects like building a trailer.
For a TIG unit you need one that has low amperage. I have a very old 1962 Miller 330 A/BP. It is very large and heavy and can weld the edge of two razor blades together with a skilled welder (not me). It can also weld up aluminum cylinder heads when needed. It was bought used ready to weld for $600. I see them in craigslist several times a year in that price range. They pros are selling them cause they have to get the new computer controlled units. Otherwise they would not be selling them. I know of one pro still using his as a back up. You can find the newer large TIG units for under $1500 ready to weld on Craigslist too. Keep in mind the large bottles are only rentals so you must have paperwork if the guy owns the bottle (which he probably does not own it). That is another thing to understand when buying used welders. Having paperwork and a good relationship with your local gas supplier is how a hobbyist gets his gas at a reasonable cost when dealing with used bottles. My brother and I have bought several tanks and they are pretty easy on us when we go in with a bottle for new gas. Sometimes they do not even care if the tank is out of date.
Terry NJ
Well-known member
I was using a borrowed Miller Tig unit. It had a thumb switch which I could never master. I had to use it in "Tap start" Mode. Many years ago, I ran the welding dept of the machine shop where I worked and we had an old lincoln stick machine(Not a tombstone), A Linde MIG, on which I did some really nice welding and an older TIG machine with a foot pedal, heat control. That TIG was the best of the bunch. A really good machine with really great control.
I'm spoiled! Gotta have that pedal! Thumb thingies don't do it for me. But pedals aren't cheap. I priced one for the Miller and it was $250. Now my life is incomplete because I only have a Linde 220 Buzzbox and a 110V Gas Century MIG (Made by lincoln) and all of he criticisms of these lowcost machines are true. The worst being that you can't properly adjust the heat. You're always playing with the heat/feed adjustments. For the record, When I was at Bert's a couple of weeks ago, the mechanic showed me an engine he was working on. Most interesting was the Crankshaft wich he had counterweighted. He had welded the weights on with a MIG! Kinda flies in the face of everthing I ever knew about MIG. You don't use MIG where a lot of strength is needed. I would've welded them with stick with 8018 or 9018 wire.
A Tip! Got this from a local restoration shop. Whereever possible, Make your patches round and avoid having corners on them, It pulls less.
Terry
I'm spoiled! Gotta have that pedal! Thumb thingies don't do it for me. But pedals aren't cheap. I priced one for the Miller and it was $250. Now my life is incomplete because I only have a Linde 220 Buzzbox and a 110V Gas Century MIG (Made by lincoln) and all of he criticisms of these lowcost machines are true. The worst being that you can't properly adjust the heat. You're always playing with the heat/feed adjustments. For the record, When I was at Bert's a couple of weeks ago, the mechanic showed me an engine he was working on. Most interesting was the Crankshaft wich he had counterweighted. He had welded the weights on with a MIG! Kinda flies in the face of everthing I ever knew about MIG. You don't use MIG where a lot of strength is needed. I would've welded them with stick with 8018 or 9018 wire.
A Tip! Got this from a local restoration shop. Whereever possible, Make your patches round and avoid having corners on them, It pulls less.
Terry
bobpo
Well-known member
Just a thought here. One of my sons bought his Ol' Daddy a Mig Welder for Christmas a couple of years ago.
The first thing I did was to locate a good Mig Welding Instructor at a local Community College. I signed up for this fella's evening classes for about 8 weeks. Two nights per week.
The Instructor was a retired Navy underwater welder. Needless to say, he was "really" good. I think I paid $300.00 for the evening classes and it was well worth the money. It was so funny
'cause this "Hands-On" class was full of 18-25 yr old kids. Some of them really weird looking (spikes, tatoos and piercings everywhere) 
...whew... My age wasn't the only thing that set me out from the rest of that pack...
....Then there was this vocabulary thing. 
We would never have gotten away with that when I was a kid. Not in any class, of anything....
They thought it was strange that some guy as old as their Great Grandfather was taking a class right along with them. We got along just fine tho. And my MIG machine is a inexpensive one too. But armed with that class, it works just fine.
I have used a Lincoln stick welder and a good set of torches most of my life but had never touched a Wire Welder. So my thought was to learn from someone who really knew their business. Thus this particular instructor. Money well spent.
Next, maybe TIG.......Maybe I'll do that when I'm in my 80's.
The first thing I did was to locate a good Mig Welding Instructor at a local Community College. I signed up for this fella's evening classes for about 8 weeks. Two nights per week.The Instructor was a retired Navy underwater welder. Needless to say, he was "really" good. I think I paid $300.00 for the evening classes and it was well worth the money. It was so funny
'cause this "Hands-On" class was full of 18-25 yr old kids. Some of them really weird looking (spikes, tatoos and piercings everywhere) ...whew... My age wasn't the only thing that set me out from the rest of that pack.......Then there was this vocabulary thing. We would never have gotten away with that when I was a kid. Not in any class, of anything.... They thought it was strange that some guy as old as their Great Grandfather was taking a class right along with them. We got along just fine tho. And my MIG machine is a inexpensive one too. But armed with that class, it works just fine.I have used a Lincoln stick welder and a good set of torches most of my life but had never touched a Wire Welder. So my thought was to learn from someone who really knew their business. Thus this particular instructor. Money well spent.
Next, maybe TIG.......Maybe I'll do that when I'm in my 80's.
Seth Swoboda
Well-known member
My dad just purchased a Miller Syncro wave 200 TIG welder with foot control. We have a Hobart Ironman 250 MIG with spool gun and I wanted to try the TIG for body work. I am new to TIG and will have to have a friend show me how to use the TIG. TIG looks to be a little more involved than the MIG. Can't wait to try it out soon. Just unpacked it this past week.