This Axle and ring gear usable?

[drfromnc]

Tore down my 34 pickup banjo rear to inspect and replace the parts that are worn. Looks like one axle needs replacing (which I have) but curious on the ring gear. You can see from the pic there is some scoring on the axle mating surface of the ring gear. Is it usable or too badly scored?

Also see pics of the axle that matches up with same surface. Axle pic also shows a lot of pitting on tapered end.

Opinions on the axle and ring gear viability are wanted. Thanks

 

[Bored&Stroked]

That is funny, I've never seen a ring gear score like that? Both the axle and the ring gear are hardened, so maybe there was a major lubrication problem at some point?

I really don't like the amount of scoring on either piece - if it was mine, I'd look for a new Ring and Pinion (they need to be replaced as a set) and you've already mentioned a new axle.

Carefully inspect all the bearings as there had to be a lot of metal in the gear lube - and that tends to wear things out.

 

[Tim Ayers]

Regarding the axle. I'd lap it using Time Saver green label (for hard metals) lapping powdered. I just did my buddy's '32 axles that looks way worse than yours and I was impressed how his came out. I lapped it three separate times using a known good hub.

That Time Saver lapping powdered is really good stuff.

 

[drfromnc]

There wasn’t much gear oil in the diff when I tried to drain it. So that sounds reasonable. am replacing all the seals and bearings regardless.

 

[drfromnc]

Regarding the axle. I'd lap it using Time Saver green label (for hard metals) lapping powdered. I just did my buddy's '32 axles that looks way worse than yours and I was impressed how his came out. I lapped it three separate times using a known good hub.

That Time Saver lapping powdered is really good stuff.

I’ll keep this in mind. Thanks. I did try to test fit my spare axle in the both halves of the spider gear housing and it would seat. Then measured old axle and spare to find .01” difference. Ugh

 

[Ken/Alabama]

As much work that’s involved, me personally would go for another ring and pinion.

 

[David J]

why not use the good axle,clean up-smooth out the galled surface in ring gear and and find a shim that fits.

Agree with that being an odd place for wear???
Going straight that area is stationary.

 

[Fred A]

What about the races on the axle housings? With such a rough assembly, more can be gravely damaged. I see a lot of wishful thinking but not a great future. Good Luck: Fred A

 

[drfromnc]

What about the races on the axle housings? With such a rough assembly, more can be gravely damaged. I see a lot of wishful thinking but not a great future. Good Luck: Fred A

Fred, you are correct, race on that axle housing is rough. See first picture. Included pics of the other race and ends of housings.

 

[Bored&Stroked]

In looking at the tapered roller bearing races, this thing obviously had a lubrication and heat issue somewhere in the past. Also, when you look at the outer races, it looks like the bearing surfaces need to be ground and sleeved (which a few places can do).

If it was mine, I'd plan for a complete rebuild with a new R&P, sleeved outer bearings, new R&P bearings (only use NOS stuff) - done by somebody who really knows these rears and has the tools/equipment to correctly do the work.

It will not be a cheap deal - as there is a lot of labor and parts to do this work (I know from experience) - but you'll end up with a rear that will be correct and last way longer than any of our lifetimes (if correctly maintained).

 

[drfromnc]

In looking at the tapered roller bearing races, this thing obviously had a lubrication and heat issue somewhere in the past. Also, when you look at the outer races, it looks like the bearing surfaces need to be ground and sleeved (which a few places can do).

If it was mine, I'd plan for a complete rebuild with a new R&P, sleeved outer bearings, new R&P bearings (only use NOS stuff) - done by somebody who really knows these rears and has the tools/equipment to correctly do the work.

It will not be a cheap deal - as there is a lot of labor and parts to do this work (I know from experience) - but you'll end up with a rear that will be correct and last way longer than any of our lifetimes (if correctly maintained).

Thanks Bored&stroked, I had planned on replacing the tapered races (and all new bearings and grease retainers) since one has obvious rust or pitting on it but thought I could get by with the outer races as is (they are smooth and no scoring that catches when I drag my finger nail across it) or spend some time putting some Emory cloth to them.

Can you or others provide contacts for someone who provides rebuilding service?

I know hot rod works does conversions and I assume they can do factory rebuilds too. I will call them tomorrow.

 

[Bored&Stroked]

Since you're going to replace the tapered roller bearings, you should replace the races that go with them as well . . . hopefully from the same manufacturer.

I would mic the outer wheel roller bearing surfaces and see if they are worn (usually on the bottom). If they are not worn and/or pitted, then you are a fortunate man!

I wish you the best of luck and hopefully you find a good rebuilder - Hotrod Works is surely one of the leading contenders.

 

[Tim Ayers]

Thanks Bored&stroked, I had planned on replacing the tapered races (and all new bearings and grease retainers) since one has obvious rust or pitting on it but thought I could get by with the outer races as is (they are smooth and no scoring that catches when I drag my finger nail across it) or spend some time putting some Emory cloth to them.

Can you or others provide contacts for someone who provides rebuilding service?

I know hot rod works does conversions and I assume they can do factory rebuilds too. I will call them tomorrow.

I strongly suggest Time Saver lapping powder once you get them Scotch Brite cleaned. It is the best stuff I've used for lapping the tapper on the axle to the hub. Works really well and cleans up really easily once done.

https://ws2coating.com/timesaver-la... is manufactured,sliding parts of a mechanism

For some reason, most Model T parts houses carry both the green and yellow. One is for soft bushings and the other is for steel to steel parts.

 

[drfromnc]

So picked up another ring and pinion to go in my pickup BUT they are not the same the pinion is 1/2” longer and the part of the pinion the bearings slide onto is 1/4” larger diameter. Also the ring gear is slightly different. Any one know what this 4.11 ratios ring and pinion came from? Any documented dimensions on these parts I can reference?

Will post some pics shortly.

34 ring gear on the left, unknown one on the right. 34 pinions on the right, unknown on the left.

 

[Brian]

35-36, they made the banjo wider, longer, with corresponding changes to pinion etc

 

[drfromnc]

35-36, they made the banjo wider, longer, with corresponding changes to pinion etc

Thanks Brian. Looking back at the green Ford book the only other 4.11, 10 spline ring and pinion is the ‘35-‘38.

 

[drfromnc]

Update: finally picked another rear end this week ( thanks YankeeMike..) and tore it apart to find R&P looks great as well as a good axle to mate with my existing good axle. Now just got to clean it up and then pick which center section and bells to use out of the 3 sets I have.

 

[cas3]

Pay attention to the area where the rear pinion bearing sits in the center sections. I feel this is a weak spot for our old fords. I have seen many that were cracked, or have spun a bearing so the new bearing does not seat snug as it should

 

[drfromnc]

So removed the carrier bearing race or cup from each axle tube as well as the grease seal on each. What is the trick to prep the grease seal seat before installing new seals? I used a baby bottle brush soaked in kerosene to scrub them but still look a like they need further cleaning. Can I have my sandblast guy blast inside the tubes when he does the outside?

 

[TJ]

So removed the carrier bearing race or cup from each axle tube as well as the grease seal on each. What is the trick to prep the grease seal seat before installing new seals? I used a baby bottle brush soaked in kerosene to scrub them but still look a like they need further cleaning. Can I have my sandblast guy blast inside the tubes when he does the outside?

Personally I would not sandblast anything like that. That sand gets everywhere and is difficult to clean out. If you want it clean get it hot tanked