Thermostat questions

bugsiegel

bugsiegel

Senior Member
I'm certainly not a mechanic but I read something in here a week or so ago and I have to ask about it.
I believe it was stated that the thermostat has no impact on the operating temp of the engine and went further to say that the thermostat only helps the engine warm up quicker.
Now again, I'm no mechanic but my basic understanding of the thermostat is that when it or the fluid around it brings it to a designed temp it will then allow fluid to flow past it. So out with the hot fluid and in with the cooler fluid. Is this correct so far?
Wouldn't this exchange of fluid temperatures actually control the operating temp of the engine?
Is it the hot fluid that trips the thermostat or is it the cold fluid that trips the thermostat? what is the position of the thermostat when the engine is cold?
An even simpler form of this question is: does a lower temp thermostat keep an engine cooler?
 
Yes a lower temp stat will keep the engine at a cooler temperature as long as it's cool weather. Stats are in the closed position when cool. A thermostat for the old Fords MUST have a large flow opening so it don't restrict the coolant flow. In cooler weather a slight restriction of flow won't cause any over heating problem but in hot weather a restiction of flow will cause the engine to run up in the 190 or higher range driving down the road. When at 190 and you get in traffic on a hot day the engine over heats or is on the border line of boiling over and don't forget the engine temperature go's higher when the engine is shut down. The water isn't around the thermostat, it is backed up behind most stats and can take a while before they open. Bob Shewman makes heavy duty all copper and brass stats that don't restrict the flow and allow a full flow of coolant to flow through the system when open. I use them in 4 old Fords and they hold the temperature between 178 and 182 at all times on my Fords at tempertures from 50 to 100 degrees. Once a thermostat fully opens in warm weather it don't control anything it just stays wide open. Bobs stats have preflow openings so a small amount of coolant flows as soon as the engine starts. The water don't sit behind the stat cool, it allows warm coolant to flow by and opens fully as the temperature comes up to 180. In cool weather the stats open and close slightly to maintain a constant 180. These stats fit in the hoses and can be left in year round. Contact Bob at 1-610-933-6637. G.M.
 
My F1 8BA was running 3/4 up the temp gauge. Just took the stats out and now it runs at the half way 'normal ' point on the gauge. Seems to indicate the engine runs cooler without stats. As expected, it takes longer to warm up though.
 
I think this will start a discussion-but here goes. It is not a good idea to run an engine without thermostats. Engines need to run in a certain temp range to operate properly. As frugal as Henry Ford was he would not have put termostats in his cars if they were not needed. A thermostat gets the car up to operating temp and keeps it there.
 
If the car is driven only in warm weather thermostats are not required but on chilly spring or fall days the engine takes a long time to warm up and runs to cool. A piece of cardboard over 1/3rd of the radiator at the bottom will over come this problem and can easly be removed. I did this for years because NO thermostats were available for 1932 to 1948 Fords that didn't restrict the coolant flow. This restiction is OK in cool weather but as stated above causes over heating in hot weather. I live where it is hot almost the entire year and the cardboard trick worked for me. I tried a number of modern stats even modifying them but with the small flow openings none worked when it got over 85 dergees. On my 39 pickup that will run below 180 at a fast idle for 2 hours on a 100 degree day would get 195 or higher with 160 degree modern stats with 8- .125 holes drilled in the flange to get more coolant flow. Problem was worse with no holes. I tested several sets of Bob Shewmans stats over a year ago and they work and perform exactly like stats should and left them in and they come up to temperature in 4 or 5 miles. These stats have about a 1- 1/2" flow opening where ALL modern stats I have seen have a 7/8 to 1" opening. The hoses have a 1 3/4" opening and taking away 1/3rd or more of the coolant flow causes over heating. Skips pumps are an example of the effect of coolant flow in relation to improved cooling. On 32 to 36 engines each stock pump delivers 55 gallons in 5 minutes compared to 92 gallons with Skips modified impellers. On 37 to 53 stock pumps 65 to 70 gallons in 5 minutes compared to 110 gallons with his turbine impeller which is exclusive in only his pumps. Others claim turbine impellers but this is not true. So more water pumped by Skips pumps provide around a 25 degree improvement compared to stock pumps this is not only a claim by me but backed by many posts by others on a lot of sites over a number of years. This proves more coolant circulation, improves cooling and my self and others provided information where a restricted flow causes these old Ford engines to run hot in warm weather. You might say a resticted flow in cool weather would be like a thermostat partialy open maintaining a warmer engine but results in over heating by restricting the flow in hot weather. I can get in any of my old Fords when it's 30 or 100 degrees and the engines run at 180 going down the road with Bob's 180 degree stats. At a constant 180 the engines run the same all the time. Idle or stop and go traffic is another story with the stock Ford fans. G.M.
 
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Was thinking about this thread as I went to get breakfast tacos in my 8BA powered '36 this morning when it was still about 40* outside. (I have 180* thermostats and such an apparently clean system that the old truck will hold 175* when I take it out during the Texas summer.) The 180* thermostats got things where I could soon enjoy the heater pumping warmth into the cab negating the air leaks around my windshield frame.

Anyway, enough of that. I think the problem that people have with understanding thermostats is in the name, "thermostats." Maybe if they were named "temperature regulators" it would be easier to understand their function.

Sorry, I do not have any water pumps or thermostats to sell. If this idea of a name change for thermostats is beneficial to you, please PayPal me $2.00. Thank you.
 
36tbird said:
Was thinking about this thread as I went to get breakfast tacos in my 8BA powered '36 this morning when it was still about 40* outside. (I have 180* thermostats and such an apparently clean system that the old truck will hold 175* when I take it out during the Texas summer.) The 180* thermostats got things where I could soon enjoy the heater pumping warmth into the cab negating the air leaks around my windshield frame.

Anyway, enough of that. I think the problem that people have with understanding thermostats is in the name, "thermostats." Maybe if they were named "temperature regulators" it would be easier to understand their function.

Sorry, I do not have any water pumps or thermostats to sell. If this idea of a name change for thermostats is beneficial to you, please PayPal me $2.00. Thank you.
Click to expand...


If only someone would sell waterpumps or thermostats....
 
If he had 160 degree stats available I would be tempted to try them out. Using 180s in stop and go traffic in my area that is plagued with century long traffic lights all over the place is another story. If my mechanical gauges read over 190, the dreaded vapor lock sets-in. Steve
 
Firstly IMHO 37 pickup is bang on the nail. The thermostats are nearly as essential as a good oil pump if you want a good long life out of your expensive engine.
As 36 Bird puts it, they are your "temperature regulators", and they work automatically under the basic rules of physics. They either contain alcohol or wax, which expands or contracts relative to the temperature on the bottom side. BTW the bellows type (alcohol) usually fails in the closed position, and the wax ones in the open position (better?)
I have seen more good ones replaced as a cautionary move, than bad ones
I have very little experience with flathead v8s, but my general experience is that when there is a problem, it usually comes down to an unhealthy cooling system, a mechanical defect, or an ignition fault.
A small amount of scale in the cooling system makes one hell of a difference to its ability to function.

The thermostats are there to get your fine V8 quickly up to "OPERATING temperature" where it is at it's MOST efficient, and wears out, at the slowest possible rate.
It may well be that that Henry's V8 suffers from a poor flow through a thermostat, but I have seen engines of bigger cubes cool well with the flow through one thermostat, while the Ford V8 has two.

A very interesting forum.
 
I have owned my 8BA for 64 years. For the 1st 40 I only used thermostats in the coldest winter months. 160's. 9 months without them. Since rebuilding it 28 years ago I've done the same thing. Wish someone would have told me how important it was to always run them.
Gosh! I hope my engine doesn't wear out prematurely.
 
With my 8BA on the rebuild I used stats and it overheated...took them out and ran cool all day long. Never drove it in the cold temps so, don't know.
Almost seems like it depends on the engine!
 
I only take them out in summer because I guess it does restrict water flow but t will surely overheat some in dead of summer.Do not want heat about 190 bad on engine
 
For whatever reason, when I worked for a Ford Tractor dealer in the early '60's, when we rebuilt an 8N, 9N, 2N tractor, the boss always made us put a thermostat in.
 
Running an engine at low temperatures promotes sludge in the oil pan. If you want to destroy an engine, sludge it up. Higher temperatures boil off the water that is condensed at low temps.
 
V12 I don't think sludge developes with the new oils we have today. Also in one of the Ford Service Bulletins they stated the moisture is removed at 130 degrees. I haven't seen sludge for years except in an original 38 engine I took apart several years ago. See picture. G.M.
 

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One other benefit is the back pressure created by the reduced size of the thermostat opening is the pressure that helps to reduce gas or steam bulbs and increases liquid contact on the block for for heat transferring. And increasing cooling efficiency IMOP
 
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