The GREAT Introducing Ms. American 3.14159 Caper
- Thread starter JCAllison
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JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr. K,
Of course! But you know what? If someone DID kype Ms. American, I'd rest easier knowing it was YOU, because she'd be in the very best of hands!
Well, I don't have a "12GA", but I DO have a .357 Magnum Colt Python and there HAVE been people who are known to have died of Lead Poisoning (but not at my hand)!I have an extreme allergic reaction to rock salt propelled from a 12GA ...
VERY TRUE. Ask me how I know!
There are a couple of parts called the Dovetail, and the Dovetail Striker (see attached illustration) which are right at the TOP of the FRONT of the Rear Door whose function is to pull the front of the Rear Window snug against the back of the Front Window.
Those two parts are boogers to install, and even bigger boogers to properly adjust! Took removing EVERYTHING a number of times to finally get it right.
BUT the next person who sees the Window Escapement Mechanisms in Ms. American is going to be impressed.
First, just getting the Interior Trim Panels off, they will find them with Aluminum Foil adhered to the back of the Panels to make them impervious to moisture, which will make the Fiber Board on which the Vinyl is attached last forever. See attached JPGs:
Then they will find the Moisture Barrier that was just a sheet of paper when it came from the factory, is now THREE layers of Press&Seal (see attached JPGs)
And then they will find all the Escapement Parts, and Wind Wing mechanisms have been painted with the SAME Black and Gold color scheme of the Engine Compartment and the 3.14. See attached JPGs.
All of the Channel Riders, were put in with lots of Marine Lube, and the stuff should never get hard like the ORIGINAL Grease used by the Factory.
Also, the interiors of the Doors have been given a layer of Under Coating.
Actually, it was quite a fun project, and turned out REALLY well. The Windows all work as good, if not better than when NEW. They are smooth, and easy. Should last a long time. It was a lot of effort, but nothing exceeds like excess!
Anyway, it's time for me to clean up the mess left from feeding the five felines that are my family, and then get on with the day, in which Lorrie Van Haul is going to get her Door Handles replaced and her Door Latches reinstalled.
Hope this finds YOU doing well, and taking excellent care.
JC
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
The one thing that killed me about the Autolite 4100 is the secondary operating diaphragms. They are very thin and not much extension past the edge of the casting flange. They would work OK for a while then the diaphragm would fail and leave me with a two barrel carb. I had an old 64 T-bird that the carb and all the electric & vacuum stuff gave me fits so it went on down the road without me. It took me a long time just to get the cruise-o-matic to work well again let alone trying to keep the AC working and all the electric windows. I stick with the more manual cars now days and leave the real fancy Lincolns & T-birds to the guys with deeper pockets. A 63 Galaxie or Marauder fast back may show up in the driveway one day though. I think I'll look for the manual secondary Holley type carb for that one along with a T85-R11N for an overdrive or maybe a super T10 4-speed transmission.
scicala
Well-known member
Is (was) this the OEM manual choke setup for the 289HP? Very hard to find.
I've seen those manual choke set ups for the 4100's on EBAY before. Somebody must reproduce them. I believe it's identical to the ones on 289 Hi Po's.
Sal
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Craig,
Personally know nothing at all about this. It just so happened that either Amazon, or eBay was tracking my activity, and sent the suggestion about the Mustangs Etc. Manual Choke Mechanism. It had a URL, and the Webpage that came up had a very nice Video of the Device.
It's a bit pricey being over $80.00, but back when I was much younger, I had loaned an uncle a bit of money out of each one of my paychecks, and he promised when I got too old to be employable, that he would pay me back some every month. So now, it's not hard-earned cash that I'm spending, it's FREE MONEY sent each month from my fabulously wealthy Uncle!
So I thought: "What the heck!", and ordered one of those puppies. Have to say that what it did for Ms. American was nothing short of MIRACULOUS! Best $80.00+ I ever spent on the old Gal.
Am going to do a NEW Thread about it, with some of the stuff that needed doing to get it to all work properly, with JPGs and everything. It should be interesting if you're in to that kind of thing.
Anyway, hope YOU are well.
JC
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr. RW,
Have never had that kind of problem. But thinking about it, are you aware of the little SCREW in the Hole in a NUB that is supposed to be turned till it hits a Lever connected to the Throttle Plates in the Secondary Bores? That little SCREW is there to keep the Secondary Throttle Plates from STICKING in the Venturi Bores. Will comment on THAT if you say you don't know about it. If you DO know about THAT, then there is something else that I have to comment about.
Have to give you an "AMEN"!" to THAT! Ms. American too is a PURE vehicle. No Power ANYTHING except the P-Code 390 FE (I call it the 3.14). No power Steering, no power Brakes, no power Windows, no power Seats, no Automatic Transmission (although the Overdrive pretty much controls itself), and while she DOES have a Clock, it is right only twice a day, and there is no Radio, but there IS a genuine Radio Delete that covers the hole where the Radio would be if she had one. BTW, a Radio Delete is a "rare" item!
Am not familiar with the R11N, but Ms. American has a T85 w/ Overdrive (is THAT an R11N?). Have to say that with the 4.11:1 Differential, she has an adequate amount of "scat", but drop into Third Overdrive, and it's like having a 3.33:1 Gear. At 70 MPH, the 3.14 isn't turning even 3,000 RPM! And the jolt that comes when the 3.14 kicks out of Overdrive to straight Third never ceases to amaze me.
Also, the 3.14 was rebuilt in 1989, and got a Holley 4150 with Vacuum Secondaries. It was all right, but when I accidentally found the ORIGINAL PI Carburetor (an Autolite 4100 C4AF 9510 DG), off came the Holley, and it is sitting here on the Shelf with a fritzed Secondary Float Bowl.
Am serious about the little SCREW on the 4100 Secondaries Lever. There is much to be known about it, and there are JPGs of how it is set up on Ms. American. Don't know if you know Ross over at FordMuscle, but he hinted at what has been done to Ms. American on THAT account. Pretty amazing stuff.
Also, have mentioned Rosemary's Miscarriage a couple of times hoping someone would ask about it, but no one had taken the bait. That too is a little bit interesting. Maybe Mr. Kultulz will nibble.
Anyway, hope you are having a GREAT weekend.
JC
rotorwrench
Well-known member
It may be but it could also be the earlier R11C. I think the later unit was using nodular cast iron technology to give it more strength for use in pickup trucks with overdrive and FE engines. I don't mind a 3 on the tree at all. The floor shift types can get in way sometimes. The earlier T85 is still a strong unit. Even the 9-inch rear axles started using nodular castings eventually. All for stronger structure I'm sure.
A friend of mine had a police FE 390 motor from an old 1961 police car with the solid lifter set up. He put it in his 63 4-door and ran the hell out of it. He eventually got hit from behind by a street sweeper and started tinkering with the 66 Fairlanes with small blocks but he always wanted to go back to the 390. Sadly he passed about 10-years ago so he never got to get another one.
If your 4100 keeps working then go with it. You've got a lot invested there for originality. They do real well when everything is functioning correctly. They actually don't do too bad on mileage either.
The jolt you feel it the coil getting shut off for a split second so as to allow the drop down from planetary to 1:1 drive. It really gives a kaboom at kick down when they go full tilt in 3rd gear.
A friend of mine had a police FE 390 motor from an old 1961 police car with the solid lifter set up. He put it in his 63 4-door and ran the hell out of it. He eventually got hit from behind by a street sweeper and started tinkering with the 66 Fairlanes with small blocks but he always wanted to go back to the 390. Sadly he passed about 10-years ago so he never got to get another one.
If your 4100 keeps working then go with it. You've got a lot invested there for originality. They do real well when everything is functioning correctly. They actually don't do too bad on mileage either.
The jolt you feel it the coil getting shut off for a split second so as to allow the drop down from planetary to 1:1 drive. It really gives a kaboom at kick down when they go full tilt in 3rd gear.
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JCAllison
Senior Member
You still had better tuck her in good at night is all I can say.
It is a beautiful body style for a 4DR, as it didn't have that period BOX TOP roof, was a true HDTP and of course the POLICE PACKAGE.
Hey Mr. K,
How do you get the image to appear as it does in your post. I'd like to be able to insert the image with text above and below it, and have the image appear full size instead of being a bunch of thumbnails at the bottom of the post.
Inquiring minds want to know.
JC
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr. RW,
Had never been aware of the Overdrive being called an R11, or what the differences were. Pretty interesting.
The Column Shift on the 64 Galaxie has always worked well, although a while back, it seemed to had gotten quirky. Turned out it needed a bit of Lubrication. Used some Greasless Spray-On stuff, and it straightened right up.
Have heard of "nodular", but am not sure exactly what it is.
Had, some time ago, read where the Solid Lifter Blocks didn't have the Oil Galleries drilled like the Hydraulic Lifter Blocks had in order to supply the Hydraulic Lifters with Oil, but when the 3.14 was rebuilt, we found that it DID have the Oil Galleries supplying the Lifters Bores with Oil drilled. We concluded that THAT would be all right, and that it would lubricate the Solid Lifters in their Bores.
Some time ago, had a conversation with Greg Donahue, and he made the comment that some people LIKE the Solid Lifter setup, but some DON'T.
They are somewhat rare.
The Carburetion part of the 4100 is GREAT, but the Automatic Choke Mechanism was a Rube Goldberg type device. Having Hot Air coming up from the Headers, and all that went with THAT was a constant problem. Tried to alleviate it with an Electric Choke Cap, but THAT created its OWN set of problems. Then went to a Manual Choke. THAT made all the difference in the world. AND it cleaned up the appearance of the 4100. The appearance of the 4100 when it got back from Champion Carburetors in Arlington, Texas was AMAZING, and it has worked just GREAT since then.
RIGHT! The Under Dash Instrument Array shows the Voltmeter DROP to Zero, and Back Up to 14 Volts when the Overdrive Kick-Down is activated by pushing the Accelerator to the Floor. And the 4100 is WIDE-OPEN when the Ignition comes back on.
Yes, it does. And it is even a bigger "kaboom" when kicking out of Overdrive in 2nd Gear! The Overdrive Solenoid allows the Overdrive to drop in at 32 MPH, so it is possible to get unto 1st Overdrive, but while that IS possible, it seldom is done.
On another note: Noticed your Avatar. Is that YOU in the picture? And isn't the aircraft behind the figure a B17? Also, see that you are in San Antonio, Texas. You're relatively close to where Ms. American and I live. We're in Onalaska, Texas, which is 33 miles East of Huntsville. It's where Texas Highway 190 crosses the Trinity River. They dammed the Trinity to create Lake Livingston. Lake Livingston is the reservoir that supplies Houston with Water. Lake Livingston will never go dry as long as Dallasites continue to flush their toilets!
So the present Caper here is putting NEW Door Handles on Ms. American's Running Mate, and Chase Truck, Lorrie Van Haul. Have to work early in the morning because it's the time of year that it's getting HOT at around 10:00 a.m. Supposed to get up to 94 here today. That's the hottest temp so far this year. Also, because of the Gulf Moisture, and the Respiration of the Sam Houston National Forest, it just get almost unbearable to be outdoors, which is not to mention the Mosquitoes.
Anyway, hope this finds YOU having a GREAT weekend. Take care.
JC
KULTULZ
Well-known member
It's within UBB CODE - https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor_forum/ubbcode.html
The trick on this forum is to upload the photo - MANAGE ATTACHMENTS - so it is embedded here and then add the photo within
After seeing the thumbnail on PREVIEW POST, right click on it and you will see SOURCE. Copy and paste the URL within
Hope that made sense.
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr. K,It's within UBB CODE - https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor_forum/ubbcode.html
The trick on this forum is to upload the photo - MANAGE ATTACHMENTS - so it is embedded here and then add the photo withinwithin the POST MESSAGE as most any image without this forum address will drop at some point.
After seeing the thumbnail on PREVIEW POST, right click on it and you will see SOURCE. Copy and paste the URL withinwherever you want the enhanced photo in your post.
Hope that made sense.
Am thinking I understand, but the proof of the pudding will be in the doing. We'll see.
Want to get used to doing it before doing the tutorial about the Mustangs Etc. Manual Choke System.
BTW, are you EVER going to ask about Rosemary's Miscarriage?
Am itching to tell you about it. There's a good story just waiting to be told! Take it easy.
JC
KULTULZ
Well-known member
BTW, are you EVER going to ask about Rosemary's Miscarriage?
Take it easy.
JC
OK, I'll bite ...
I have to take it easy. At my age it is hard to come by ...
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr K,
No. In fact when they rebuilt the 4100, they (supposedly) tested it on a 390 FE, Test Engine, and (again supposedly) did a bunch of adjustments.
And the Screw that is in the threaded Nub on the Port Side of the Carburetor, that is adjusted to keep the Secondary Throttle Plates from sticking in the Secondary Venturis, was ground off flush with the Bottom of the Threaded Nub in which it is screwed.
Used a Craftsman RotoTool, and a small Cutting Wheel to put a small Screwdriver Slot in the Screw's under-end, and removed it so that an Air/Fuel Mixture Screw (with the Needle Point ground down flat) could be put up into the threaded Nub Hole.
That AFM Screw is able to be turned Righty Tighty to increase the opening of the Secondary Throttle Plates, or turned Lefty Loosey to decrease the opening of the Secondary Throttle Plates. And because they are opened to allow Air through them, the Throttle Plates NEVER go completely closed and so NEVER stick in the Venturi Bore.
Some years ago, it occurred to me that if there was a Screw in that threaded Nub Hole, that it would be possible to make the 3.14 idle on the Secondaries. So I have it a try, and sure enough it worked. Reported that on the FMF, and one of the guys there berated me for doing it saying it WOULDN'T work. I responded with it WOULD work, and in fact it was already being done.
It was some time later that Ross (remember Ross with the 429 Mustang?) was kind of mentoring me, and he just hinted at doing what I had already been doing with a temporary Bolt, which had to be turned with a Wrench.
But it wasn't until the 4100 was gotten back from Champion Carburetors that it was found that the AFM Screw was of the same size and thread as the Screw in the threaded Nub Hole. THAT made it possible to turn the Knurled AFM Screw with one's Fingers, while the Engine is running.
The MAIN thing about this is that since the 3.14 is starting and idling on the Secondaries, and the Primaries are COMPLETELY CLOSED, there is NO Vacuum Advance taking place in the Distributor. That makes the 3.14 start easier because it keeps the Initial Timing from advancing when cranking.
Also, since the Curb Idle Screw on the Primaries is Completely off the Adjusting Pad when the Accelerator is off, the Secondaries, which don't change maintains the Pre-Set Idle. One can come to a stop without any Vacuum, AND the Idle never changes.
Look at the LARGE JPG of the Manual Choke Setup. At the LEFT end of the Bolt that the Manual Choke Cam pushes, you can see (pretty clearly) the AFM Screw, and how it is up against the Secondary Throttle Plate Shaft Lever.
I don't think that whomever designed the 4100 intended for this to be done to it, but there it is!
Anyway, have already this morning cleaned and stripped one of Lorrie Van Haul's Door Latches. Am just taking a break before doing the other one.
Have a GREAT Sunday.
JC
JCAllison
Senior Member
Hey Mr. K,
Don't know if you ever knew or realized that back when we first met, I used to pour over YOUR posts, catching every nuance. Was amazed at how much information you had stored in your memory banks.
Don't know if YOU remember the discussion we had about Ms. American's Aluminum Intake Manifold. I was quite upset after finding out from John Smith's Book about the P-Code Engine having an Aluminum Intake Manifold. I was sure that someone whom my Father had work on the old Gal had STOLEN it, and put on an Iron one in its place.
And you soothed that upset by saying that the P-Code DIDN'T have an Aluminum Intake Manifold, and the rationale behind THAT assertion was: If the P-Codes DID have an Aluminum Manifold, then how come with all the PIs that were built, WHERE ARE ALL THOSE ALUMINUM MANIFOLDS?
Made me feel better all over!
NOW... Since no one will nibble at the Rosemary's Miscarriage bait, am just going to go ahead and relate a favorite story.
There is a very nice lady, that I call Ms. DXL who posts under the User Name of DesertXL. She has a SUPER Shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She does the ABSOLUTE prettiest work I've ever seen. Makes Chip Whazzisizface look like an amateur. And she one time posted a JPG of a Dual Exhaust System that she had built, that looked like it was ALIVE!
About that same time, I was working on another improvement to Ms. American, that would solve a common problem that is had with not only the Autolite 4100, but also the Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor on Lorrie Van Haul. Would imagine that there are other here who have had this same problem. And the problem is: That after a car sits for a while, the Gasoline in the Float Bowls evaporates. Then when one tries to start the Engine, one has to crank till the Fuel Pump gets enough Gas to the Carburetor for it to start.
So I had put together a device that would eliminate having to crank. It involves the use of a Carter Electric Fuel Pump, a One-Way Check Valve, a Fuel Filter to protect the Carter, and it has a TWO WAY Toggle Switch that when it is clicked one way it turns the Carter ON and it stays ON. Click it the other way, and it turns the Carter ON, but turns OFF if you don't hold it ON.
And since the Carter will pump through the 3.14's Stock Fuel Pump, it can be used to prime the 4100, it can also be used when running fast to make sure that the 4100 stays full of Gas. Here is what it looks like:
Now, the reason it is called "Rosemary's Miscarriage", is because after seeing Ms. DXL's LIVING Exhaust System, which looked like the Frankenstein Monster, compared with this measly little Primer Pump which it made look like Rosemary's Baby, except it wasn't born, it was miscarried.
Anyway, Rosemary's Miscarriage keeps from having to crank Ms. American's Starter, by first Priming the 4100 before starting.
It has undergone some modifications since the JPG was taken, and it has gotten a cover put over it to keep it from getting wet, but it works WONDROUSLY, and should last a long time.
Anyway, am cleaning the Fasteners on Lorrie Van Haul's Latches in preparation for installing her NEW Door Handles.
Take care.
JC
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
About that same time, I was working on another improvement to Ms. American, that would solve a common problem that is had with not only the Autolite 4100, but also the Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor on Lorrie Van Haul. Would imagine that there are other here who have had this same problem. And the problem is: That after a car sits for a while, the Gasoline in the Float Bowls evaporates. Then when one tries to start the Engine, one has to crank till the Fuel Pump gets enough Gas to the Carburetor for it to start.
So I had put together a device that would eliminate having to crank. It involves the use of a Carter Electric Fuel Pump, a One-Way Check Valve, a Fuel Filter to protect the Carter, and it has a TWO WAY Toggle Switch that when it is clicked one way it turns the Carter ON and it stays ON. Click it the other way, and it turns the Carter ON, but turns OFF if you don't hold it ON.
And since the Carter will pump through the 3.14's Stock Fuel Pump, it can be used to prime the 4100, it can also be used when running fast to make sure that the 4100 stays full of Gas. Here is what it looks like:
Great Design!
You have this back @ the fuel tank with gravity drop?
There have been some discussions here and you show the correct way to plumb it (IMO).
Maybe that lady was the one that paid for your canopy ...
rotorwrench
Well-known member
A lot of those electric pumps allow fuel to pass through when they are shut down. It just depends on what design of pump is used. That set up will work very well although somewhat complex.
On your carb set up I'll add this info but if it's working it doesn't mean you should change anything. The secondaries don't really start to draw much of any fuel until the plates are opened far enough for the venturis to start their magic. The only idle circuitry is on the primary side and it only works when the throttle plates are open enough to allow a draw due to the low pressure there. With the secondaries open, it's allowing ambient air pressure to go through there causing a lean condition. You have some sort of balance going on there but it's not the way it was designed to work. The secondary fuel circuit is all up in the secondary feed horn area in the venturi where the idle circuit is down near the primary plates when they are in the slightly open condition. The vacuum advance just has to be relaxed in a retarded position to get a start. That's why timing is set at idle with the vacuum can disconnected & line plugged. This gives you the start condition. It takes a while with throttle plates near closed to get enough low pressure draw to get the advance diaphragm completely pulled tight. You also need the vacuum to draw the warm air for the automatic choke stove. Your problem with the choke stove may have been due to the high performance cast iron headers if that's what you have. I'm not sure how the warm air line connects up to that set up since I have no experience with them. Manual choke is damn sure more reliable in any case so I don't see a thing wrong with that.
My avatar is a photo of my Pop at the Celone Airfield near Foggia, Italy in late 1944. He was a copilot in the crew of that plane at the time. My military time was US Army helicopter engine repairman but that was a long time after that photo was taken. I have a helicopter customer up on the south end of lake Conroe so that's getting closer to your neck of the woods. It's hotter than hades here too.
On your carb set up I'll add this info but if it's working it doesn't mean you should change anything. The secondaries don't really start to draw much of any fuel until the plates are opened far enough for the venturis to start their magic. The only idle circuitry is on the primary side and it only works when the throttle plates are open enough to allow a draw due to the low pressure there. With the secondaries open, it's allowing ambient air pressure to go through there causing a lean condition. You have some sort of balance going on there but it's not the way it was designed to work. The secondary fuel circuit is all up in the secondary feed horn area in the venturi where the idle circuit is down near the primary plates when they are in the slightly open condition. The vacuum advance just has to be relaxed in a retarded position to get a start. That's why timing is set at idle with the vacuum can disconnected & line plugged. This gives you the start condition. It takes a while with throttle plates near closed to get enough low pressure draw to get the advance diaphragm completely pulled tight. You also need the vacuum to draw the warm air for the automatic choke stove. Your problem with the choke stove may have been due to the high performance cast iron headers if that's what you have. I'm not sure how the warm air line connects up to that set up since I have no experience with them. Manual choke is damn sure more reliable in any case so I don't see a thing wrong with that.
My avatar is a photo of my Pop at the Celone Airfield near Foggia, Italy in late 1944. He was a copilot in the crew of that plane at the time. My military time was US Army helicopter engine repairman but that was a long time after that photo was taken. I have a helicopter customer up on the south end of lake Conroe so that's getting closer to your neck of the woods. It's hotter than hades here too.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
If the carb/engine responds to idle air mixture screw adjustments as he has it set up, he should be fine.
As for the ported vacuum signal, it may come in @ idle to some degree, and that is why they have you disconnect it and set to OEM curb idle when setting basic timing.
As for the ported vacuum signal, it may come in @ idle to some degree, and that is why they have you disconnect it and set to OEM curb idle when setting basic timing.