The Ford Bomber Plant
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
LukeDahlinger
BANNED
Awesome film! if you can find one, pick up the book "Willow Run" by Warren Kidder, great read and goes into detail some of the things Ford & Co. were up against. Allan Nevins most excellent book "Ford Decline & Rebirth" has some great info too.
There is at least one surviving Ford built B-24, it's at Barkesdale AFB in Louisana on static display.
There is at least one surviving Ford built B-24, it's at Barkesdale AFB in Louisana on static display.
Fibber Mcgee
Well-known member
It aint a B17 but I'd take one.
CC33
Senior Member
Very well put. My hat is off to all that serve and who have served. They are our true American Heroes. I met a man at a car dealership wearing a Tuskegee cap and jacket. When he confirmed he was one of the airmen, I thanked him graciously for his service. He was honored that someone in this generation actually knew what those emblems meant.
Some things that just get people upset with the way things are today, is the way our young people are educated in our history. A recent high school history book allotted ONE paragraph about the Viet Nam war. DISGUSTING. December 7th is coming up, how many newspapers will bury the history of this date in Section B. It should be on the front page every year!
Sorry to get so political on an antique car forum. Let's all enjoy these proud American made cars and preserve them as long as we can.
flatjack9
Well-known member
How would you know the history of that plane?
raceron1120
Well-known member
Another one of many GREAT films produced back in the era to support the war effort. Thanks to Ryan for posting.
It could be called public relations. Or propoganda. Does it really make a difference? I call it patriotism - the very stuff needed in order to defeat a common national enemy. Without it, we fail. Films such as this helped to assure we did NOT fail.
Configuration and production revisions were and still are part of these complex systems as they evolve and are added to this great nation's Arsenal for Democracy. Patriotism is the glue that holds it all together.
It could be called public relations. Or propoganda. Does it really make a difference? I call it patriotism - the very stuff needed in order to defeat a common national enemy. Without it, we fail. Films such as this helped to assure we did NOT fail.
Configuration and production revisions were and still are part of these complex systems as they evolve and are added to this great nation's Arsenal for Democracy. Patriotism is the glue that holds it all together.
John Kennedy
Senior Member
Very well said, and you're exactly correct. Sometimes I just need a little reminder is all. Thanks for that!
blucar
Well-known member
The Willow Run/B-24 story is actually a bigger deal than most people realize... The rest of the story:
Prior to the actual start of WWII the US Government asked Ford to take the project on to build the planes because the other airplane manufactures had declined the contract because of the production demands that the government had placed within the contract.
Ford at first declined because they had not been in the air craft manufacturing business since they shut down the Ford Tri-Motor operation.
Ford finally relented and took on the contract. Ford had one large problem to overcome, they did not have a plant big enough, or the staff to build the the planes. Ford hired a company called the Austin Company, this company was a very large design and construction firm.. The Austin Company designed the factory and related facilities, starting construction as the plans were being drawn. Six months from the time Ford entered into the contract with the Austin Company the plant was operational and one B-24 per hour exited the building ready for flight testing.
On the subject of patriotism and the American way... I am very proud of my service in the U.S. Army during the "Cold War".('57-58).. I spent 18 months in northern/eastern Germany, supporting the armored units that pulled border patrol on the "Eastern Front" between East and West Germany on a 7/24 basis. The crack Soviet Armored Divisions were stationed just across the border from us, just waiting for the U.S. to falter on our resolve to keep the communists at bay..
Sure America has some problems, however, we are still the greatest country in the world... Maybe some of the protesters, "99%'s,the occupiers" and the rest of the free loaders that think the government should take care of them, should pack their bags and try living in one of the Middle Eastern, Mexico, etc, countries for awhile..
Prior to the actual start of WWII the US Government asked Ford to take the project on to build the planes because the other airplane manufactures had declined the contract because of the production demands that the government had placed within the contract.
Ford at first declined because they had not been in the air craft manufacturing business since they shut down the Ford Tri-Motor operation.
Ford finally relented and took on the contract. Ford had one large problem to overcome, they did not have a plant big enough, or the staff to build the the planes. Ford hired a company called the Austin Company, this company was a very large design and construction firm.. The Austin Company designed the factory and related facilities, starting construction as the plans were being drawn. Six months from the time Ford entered into the contract with the Austin Company the plant was operational and one B-24 per hour exited the building ready for flight testing.
On the subject of patriotism and the American way... I am very proud of my service in the U.S. Army during the "Cold War".('57-58).. I spent 18 months in northern/eastern Germany, supporting the armored units that pulled border patrol on the "Eastern Front" between East and West Germany on a 7/24 basis. The crack Soviet Armored Divisions were stationed just across the border from us, just waiting for the U.S. to falter on our resolve to keep the communists at bay..
Sure America has some problems, however, we are still the greatest country in the world... Maybe some of the protesters, "99%'s,the occupiers" and the rest of the free loaders that think the government should take care of them, should pack their bags and try living in one of the Middle Eastern, Mexico, etc, countries for awhile..
Thanks for the great video. It brings back many memories of my childhood. I, being born and raised (16) miles from Willow Run in the 30's and 40's recall a lot about the plant, the jobs it provided and even the people that worked there. Obviously, there was a lot of patriotism in the workers and our community surrounding Willow Run years. Yes, we heard stories of "things gone wrong" but, any operation as complexed as building a bomber as big as the Lib and as fast as (1) per hour,there's bound to be some 'awe sh-ts". Remember, we have "recalls" even today. But during the duration of production, the only thing talked about at the local gas station was occasionaly engine failure where the crew had to sit the 24 down on the expressway (I-94) and tow it back to the plant. No injuries, just local eecitement! The employees and crews were finominal as they were at their best 24/7. My father-in-law, supervisor on wing assembly, told the stories of dedicated workers working as much as they wanted, going to there cars for a short nap and retuning back to work for another shift. I'm not sure with all the union and plant regulations today, that would happen. Ford preformed a gigantic feat and contribution to WWII efforts and it should be recognized in a positive manner until the end of time. Sorry for the lenthy response to the thread but, I could go on and on. My favorite WWII aircraft!
Hoop
Well-known member
Boy, we sure do like to argue. I like this one:
"The plane did get nicknamed by some as the flying coffin, but that was because the only entrance or exit from the plane was at the rear. Because of the tight constraints of the fuselage it was nearly impossible for the flight crew to get to the rear with their parachutes on. .... Maybe you ought to do a little research before you post "
Well, a little research would turn up the bailout protocol for the crew of a B-24 ...as chronicled in the B-24 pilots manual, calls for the crew to prepare for bail out by opening the bomb bay doors, the nose wheel hatch, and the rear escape door, located on the underside near the tail of the plane. The first to exit are to be the bombardier, and then the navigator through the nose wheel hatch. Then the tail gunner and the left waist gunner are to leave through the rear escape hatch. Then the right waist gunner, followed by the flight engineer and the radio operator are to jump through the open bomb bay doors. Finally, the co-pilot and pilot through the bomb bay doors as well.
Where the "coffin" part came in was if the plane made a wheels up, "belly landing." The best places to exit were blocked by ... the ground. Parachutes at that point were not a consideration.
Further and to put everything in better perspective, do some research on Ford Werke A.G. and claims that concentration camp slave labor was used in this Ford subsidiary owned mostly by ... Henry. Also check the claims filed by Ford, USA, for damages to their factories in Germany, Austria, Romania, etc.
http://media.ford.com/events/pdf/2l-Research_Findings_S11.pdf
Ironic that Ford was paid to build the bombers that bombed his factories that supported Germany's war effort ... then received reparations for the bombing.
One slick dude.
(Sometimes it's pretty complicated.)
"The plane did get nicknamed by some as the flying coffin, but that was because the only entrance or exit from the plane was at the rear. Because of the tight constraints of the fuselage it was nearly impossible for the flight crew to get to the rear with their parachutes on. .... Maybe you ought to do a little research before you post "
Well, a little research would turn up the bailout protocol for the crew of a B-24 ...as chronicled in the B-24 pilots manual, calls for the crew to prepare for bail out by opening the bomb bay doors, the nose wheel hatch, and the rear escape door, located on the underside near the tail of the plane. The first to exit are to be the bombardier, and then the navigator through the nose wheel hatch. Then the tail gunner and the left waist gunner are to leave through the rear escape hatch. Then the right waist gunner, followed by the flight engineer and the radio operator are to jump through the open bomb bay doors. Finally, the co-pilot and pilot through the bomb bay doors as well.
Where the "coffin" part came in was if the plane made a wheels up, "belly landing." The best places to exit were blocked by ... the ground. Parachutes at that point were not a consideration.
Further and to put everything in better perspective, do some research on Ford Werke A.G. and claims that concentration camp slave labor was used in this Ford subsidiary owned mostly by ... Henry. Also check the claims filed by Ford, USA, for damages to their factories in Germany, Austria, Romania, etc.
http://media.ford.com/events/pdf/2l-Research_Findings_S11.pdf
Ironic that Ford was paid to build the bombers that bombed his factories that supported Germany's war effort ... then received reparations for the bombing.
One slick dude.
(Sometimes it's pretty complicated.)
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rogerkb1936
Well-known member
all i get is a black screen and the progress bar. what am i doing wrong?
theHIGHLANDER
Senior Member
I got a black screen too, but I live within 20min of the site so I see it live. Here's a well-known that occupies part of it currently, Kallita. The Yankee Air Museum is there too. Sometimes I drive out there just to look around and see what's up. In Motown, I-94 used to be colloquially known as "Bomber Highway". Do a "Google Earth" and see what's on the ground. There used to be a B-52 sitting there but I haven't been that close in a while.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
The B-24 was an aircraft that got little attention during the war. It was a more complex aircraft than the earlier designs like the B-17. It had larger engines and was a good bit faster than the B-17 especially after it had left a little deposit for Adolph. Most of the guys I've known that flew and crewed those old birds actually liked them pretty much. B-17s were known to take more battle damage but they were sitting ducks for the Luftwaffe with their FW 190s and flack. When the B-17s were on a run into a target they had several occasions to wave the middle finger salute at the B-24 crews already on their way back to base. The Navy had a straight tail version called the PBY4-2 Privateer. They would go on long missions looking for subs and had a good service record too. Some served as fire bombers clear up into the early 80s.
Ford had the same problems getting a big complex airplane produced as GM did making the TBF Avengers. Both were trying to do the best they could with what they had to work with. They had to train folks to work on them that had never worked on anything like them before. If people wonder why Edsel died young, this was probably one of the reasons. I can only imagine what that headache of tooling up for the war effort would have been like. The Ford family and factory team had some aviation experience but no where near what they had to gain to get that job done.
Ford had the same problems getting a big complex airplane produced as GM did making the TBF Avengers. Both were trying to do the best they could with what they had to work with. They had to train folks to work on them that had never worked on anything like them before. If people wonder why Edsel died young, this was probably one of the reasons. I can only imagine what that headache of tooling up for the war effort would have been like. The Ford family and factory team had some aviation experience but no where near what they had to gain to get that job done.
Ol' Ron
Well-known member
You'll have to check these facts, but the US of A had 140 million people in 1940. A great many of them were farm boys and clerks at ht hr local movie theater however in 5 years they built a half dozen battle ships, several dozen aircraft carriers hundreds of support vessels. Others made thousands of trucks, tanks and artillery. when it comes to aircraft, again tens of thousands fighter aircraft, besides a few bombers.
Along with these feats of production they trained 15 million service men to man these ships , tanks and aircraft, yes I'm proud to be an American, and former Navy man.
Thanks Ryan, It's good to remember the past.
PS We also kicked the crap out of em.
Along with these feats of production they trained 15 million service men to man these ships , tanks and aircraft, yes I'm proud to be an American, and former Navy man.
Thanks Ryan, It's good to remember the past.
PS We also kicked the crap out of em.
Lawrie
Well-known member
Up in the bush from here a B24 crashed during the war on a trip from Cairns to Brisbane.
It lay undisturded until about 1995, my brother had a repair shop and did some work for the US military guys who were here to look for the crew,so we knew before anyone.
We spent a lot of time at the crash site,( an 80 klm trip in the model A pickup)it hit a hillside while descending apparently.
After the US military guys left they gave us some stuff,coins etc,
my shed has a cylinder assy as pride of place.
I suppose I should do a bit of research to see if it was a willow run B24
Lawrie
It lay undisturded until about 1995, my brother had a repair shop and did some work for the US military guys who were here to look for the crew,so we knew before anyone.
We spent a lot of time at the crash site,( an 80 klm trip in the model A pickup)it hit a hillside while descending apparently.
After the US military guys left they gave us some stuff,coins etc,
my shed has a cylinder assy as pride of place.
I suppose I should do a bit of research to see if it was a willow run B24
Lawrie
Hoop
Well-known member
Here are couple links to Lawrie's B-24:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)
http://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/qld89.htm
http://kroombit.tripod.com/site.htm
One of the most famous B-24's lost in WW2 was the Lady Be Good. The undisturbed crash site was not discovered until 1958 in a remote area of the Libyan desert. Because of the nature of the desert there, not only the aircraft was still in remarkable shape, but the bodies of the crew were also found where they fell while trying to walk back to the coast.
As you read the account, appreciate how very rudimentary their navigational aids were. They used ADF which simply homed in on a radio beacon. Many of today's teenagers are walking around with cellphones having GPS "app's" that can pinpoint their position to a couple of feet.
I have the deepest respect for the guys who flew in WW2. Regardless of the truly extreme combat later military pilots faced, WW2 defined courage in the air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft))
http://www.376hbgva.com/aircraft/ladybegood.html
Here is another fantastic site on the B-24:
http://www.b24.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)
http://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/qld89.htm
http://kroombit.tripod.com/site.htm
One of the most famous B-24's lost in WW2 was the Lady Be Good. The undisturbed crash site was not discovered until 1958 in a remote area of the Libyan desert. Because of the nature of the desert there, not only the aircraft was still in remarkable shape, but the bodies of the crew were also found where they fell while trying to walk back to the coast.
As you read the account, appreciate how very rudimentary their navigational aids were. They used ADF which simply homed in on a radio beacon. Many of today's teenagers are walking around with cellphones having GPS "app's" that can pinpoint their position to a couple of feet.
I have the deepest respect for the guys who flew in WW2. Regardless of the truly extreme combat later military pilots faced, WW2 defined courage in the air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft))
http://www.376hbgva.com/aircraft/ladybegood.html
Here is another fantastic site on the B-24:
http://www.b24.net/
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