The Carburetor Shop - Forest Lake, MN

J

JimNNN

Well-known member
Since shout outs have been given to deserving vendors and shops, I figured I'd do the same for a great place in Minnesota. I visited their shop this summer when visiting a friend in St. Paul. It's in Forest Lake, which is a bit north of St. Paul.

I had decided that the carb on my '54 (original 239 engine and carb) needed someone better than me to make it right. I put a kit in it back when it was new (to me) and that helped, but it eventually needed an expert. The carb was identified by Daves55Sedan on this forum as an "EBU" so many thanks to Dave, as well, also for that info. (Who knows what kit the parts store gave me way back when.)

My carb gradually started running very inconsistent, and I suspected that the idle mixture screws were bad, among other things. I was right. I was also worried that the seats for the idle mixture screws were messed up, too, but the Carb Shop said they were OK. I'm glad that the seats were still good because that meant I could keep the original base for the carb. The rebuilt carb now runs very smooth, and more importantly...consistent. No fiddling with mixture screws every time a drive the car. Very pleased.

Something I forgot to ask them: Would manual choke carbs back in '54 have come originally with a fast idle mechanism? My carb doesn't have one, but I don't know if it might've been removed. I suspect it never came with one. Also, did they even have automatic chokes in '54?

On my '61 Merc I use the original fast idle setup with a simple aftermarket manual choke that replaced the original mechanical automatic choke. This arrangement works real good for me. BTW, the turn around time for getting the carb for my '54 back was GREAT - about a week.

https://www.thecarburetorshopus.com/
 
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All of the Holley 94 variants I have disassembled and rebuilt included a fast idle mechanism/lever. That has been about 30-35 of those carbs over the years from 54-57 (some 57 trucks had those small, three-hole base, Holley 94 variants - I guess Ford was using up stock?).

The automatic chokes came out in 1956 on those carbs - the ECG6 as I recall. I am sure Daves55sedan and Kultulz will chime in soon lol.
 
Thanks a bunch for the info, Hot Rod Reverend. It makes sense that automatic chokes came later than my '54. Every '54 that I've seen in salvage yards had the manual choke knob on the dash.


Here are a couple of pics of my carb (from before it was rebuilt at the Carb Shop.) Is any fast idle apparatus on the carb or linkage at all? I can't tell if some of the rods/arms would be used for that. I don't recall reading about fast idle in the shop manual, but I don't have it with me to verify that and I've never focused too much on the carb stuff in the manual. Read a little of it though.
 

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Yes, your carb has all of the parts for a fast idle when the choke is pulled out.
It appears the accelerator pump rod link from the throttle lever is in the inside hole. acceleration from a dead stop would probably be better if in the middle or outer hole in the throttle lever, but may be OK as is too.

Sal
 
The Ford EBU carburator originally was used for the 1954 Ford 239 Y-block, but some of them carried over into the '55 Model year as they awaited the new Holley 2100 "bug-sprayer" carb (which was nearly identical to the EBU).
All EBU carbs had manual choke ('54 and '55). The only '55 Fords with automatic choke were the ones equipped with 4-bbl teapot carb on 272 Y-blocks and Thunderbird. These were identified as "Special" V8 in '55 and they had factory dual-exhaust manifolds.
All Ford EBU carbs (and Holley 2100's) had fast-idle cam as shown in the attached photo.
These "bug-sprayer" type carbs are among the easiest to rebuild by detail oriented backyard mechanics and they all use the same kit regardless if you have an EBU, Holley 2100 or '56 ECG carb. Many kits also come with the rectangular base gasket for the 1951 thru '53 flathead carbs which are nearly identical to the EBU except for valve base.
The biggest problem I find in the EBU is the ball-check at the bottom of the accellerator pump chamber leaking gas overnight. Extremely difficult to clean the hole at bottom and can't be honed out without removing all the lead plugs for blowing out the vacuum chambers. Another nuisance with these is the fiber power-valve gasket bleeds gas out. Using the optional nylon gasket is not always viable and you have to pay close attention to how far the bottom of the valve face protrudes into the power valve well in the valve base. But if you can work it out to get a nylon gasket and assemble the main body on the valve base without having the power valve hit the bottom of the well, that's the best installation as long as the metal gasket surface is absolutely perfect (no scratches). If there is any small scratch on the power-valve mating surface at the bottom of the main body, the nylon gasket is guaranteed to leak and leave you with an empty float bowl in the morning.
EBUcarb2F.JPG
 
As far as rebuild kits, most of the kits are one-size fits all for 8BA (flathead), EBU, Holley 2100, and Holley 2110 (ECG). The same kit rebuilds all these. I have found one place in the past that specifically fits only the EBU and leaves out the gaskets for the flathead carbs and the ECG carbs.
But to get the best quality, I recommend using the set that has the leather accellerator pump boot. The rubberish boot that comes in cheaper sets wear out and are worthless. If the leather boot wears down, you can CAREFULLY stretch the spring underneath the boot and stuff the spring back in and it will be like new for 1000's more miles. Don't stretch too much or it will wear the leather faster.
If your kit comes with nylon washers for power-valve and jet removal plug/screws, use them if possible rather than the composite gaskets. (mounting surface must be pristine to use nylon gaskets).
Be careful to test the new idle/fuel mixture screws in your kit by inserting them into the valve base and adjusting out 1-1/2 turns. Try to wiggle the screw. If the screw wiggles in the valve-base threads, don't use it. You will never obtain proper idle/fuel mix with that junk. I don't like the new springs on the idle/fuel mixture screws. The ones I have always seen are larger and more obstructive to making final adjustments and easier to bottom-out before the screw is initially turned in all the way prior to turning out 1-1/2 turns. I have often used my old springs. You can turn the screws by hand while adjusting idle/fuel mix with engine running, but they won't move once you let go.
Among my favorite carb kits are Daytona parts and Mikes carburator, Kens carburators (Ken Isidor).
I haven't done business with any of them for years now (and that's what I want), years of trouble-free service from their products.
If you don't want to do any rebuilding of carbs yourself, just send them to our very own Sal Cicala who is also a member of this website. His work is flawless.
 
The overhaul kit(s) have to be ethanol compatible and cellulose filter media is broken down/degraded by ethanol laced gasoline.
 
Thanks for all the information, everyone. I'm going to figure out what's keeping my fast idle from engaging and rectify that situation. This has always been a warm weather/WARM AMBIENT ENVIRONMENT car for me so fast idle was not been much of a consideration.
 
JimNNN said:
I'm going to figure out what's keeping my fast idle from engaging and rectify that situation. This has always been a warm weather/WARM AMBIENT ENVIRONMENT car for me so fast idle was not been much of a consideration.
Click to expand...
I looked at the photos of your carb and it looks to me like some previous owner may have ground down the fast idle cam off the choke actuating lever (or cut off the angle on the accelerator lever behind it. Look at the picture on my previous post.
All my EBU and Holley 2100 carbs have this bump-out at the back of the choke actuating lever to operate the fast-idle cam.
When I lived in southern Texas, I never had to use my choke to start my '55 with EBU carb except for one day in late December 1983. They actually had snow flurries in Houston, but my relatives in southern illinois were buried under 3-1/2 feet of snow. You actually needed at least a jacket in Houston that day.
 
Yes, Dave, I see what your saying. I enlarged my photo, and the cam on my lever looks to be a different shape - smaller - than the one in your photo. I don't have the car here to look at it, so it'll be a couple days before I can verify that. From my pic, it looks like they didn't grind the cam all the way off, but reduced its size, possibly to reduce the fast idle speed (or something.) The carb has been rebuilt/refurbished since my photo...I'll be honest with you, I didn't check to see if they replaced the choke lever when I got the carb back. I know they replaced several parts beyond the scope of a typical rebuild kit.

Good eye on noticing the fast idle cam. That's a big help. Thanks.



We always seem to have a few warm days in the winter here between the ice and snow, so that's when I start my old stored cars during the off season.
 
Daves55Sedan said:
The Ford EBU carburator originally was used for the 1954 Ford 239 Y-block, but some of them carried over into the '55 Model year as they awaited the new Holley 2100 "bug-sprayer" carb (which was nearly identical to the EBU).
All EBU carbs had manual choke ('54 and '55). The only '55 Fords with automatic choke were the ones equipped with 4-bbl teapot carb on 272 Y-blocks and Thunderbird. These were identified as "Special" V8 in '55 and they had factory dual-exhaust manifolds.
All Ford EBU carbs (and Holley 2100's) had fast-idle cam as shown in the attached photo.
These "bug-sprayer" type carbs are among the easiest to rebuild by detail oriented backyard mechanics and they all use the same kit regardless if you have an EBU, Holley 2100 or '56 ECG carb. Many kits also come with the rectangular base gasket for the 1951 thru '53 flathead carbs which are nearly identical to the EBU except for valve base.
The biggest problem I find in the EBU is the ball-check at the bottom of the accellerator pump chamber leaking gas overnight. Extremely difficult to clean the hole at bottom and can't be honed out without removing all the lead plugs for blowing out the vacuum chambers. Another nuisance with these is the fiber power-valve gasket bleeds gas out. Using the optional nylon gasket is not always viable and you have to pay close attention to how far the bottom of the valve face protrudes into the power valve well in the valve base. But if you can work it out to get a nylon gasket and assemble the main body on the valve base without having the power valve hit the bottom of the well, that's the best installation as long as the metal gasket surface is absolutely perfect (no scratches). If there is any small scratch on the power-valve mating surface at the bottom of the main body, the nylon gasket is guaranteed to leak and leave you with an empty float bowl in the morning.
View attachment 504858
Click to expand...

Hey, check out that power valve, and dashpot!
 
Gene F said:
Hey, check out that power valve, and dashpot!
Click to expand...
If you are talking about that thing in the back, it is a spark control valve and they work through the accelerator pump vacuum system. If the accel pump ball-check does actually leak fuel, the fuel would flow down thru the internal vacuum chambers and weep out of the idle/fuel mixture holes in the venturi's. I doubt a drop of fuel would touch the spark control valve gasket.
The dashpot is used on all cars with Fordomatic's. It is completely divorced from any possibility of fuel leakage. It only serves as an anti-stall device when letting the foot off the gas.
 
Does anybody read prior pots before they reply ?
Also a '55 that has an EBU carb on it got changed over all the years.
Ford wouldn't do this since the EBU carb had a smaller venturi than the '55 ECG carb and the 272 was significantly larger than the 239 thet the EBU was used on. Show me the service bulliten that said it was OK to use EBU's on '55 272's and I might believe it.
Also don't understand what is meant by the spark valve working through accel pump vacuum, and fuel flowing down in internal vacuum passages ?
Makes no sense to me ans is not correct.

No offense intended, just trying to prevent false news.

Sal
 
KULTULZ said:
The overhaul kit(s) have to be ethanol compatible and cellulose filter media is broken down/degraded by ethanol laced gasoline.
Click to expand...

Here is an interesting TECH ARTICLE found on ANOTHER FORUM -

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/get-out-the-wd-40.1281726/

TO WIT -

The real cause of these problems is fuel additives called aromatic compounds that are mixed at between 18 and 25 percent of nearly all pump gas sold in the continental U.S. These aromatics are a combination of benzene, toluene, ethyl-benzene, and xylene — often shortened to BTEX. These are all nasty chemicals that can cause difficulties for rubber-like components such as the fuel pump, accelerator pump, and power valve diaphragms, rubber O-rings, and other components throughout the fuel delivery system.

These BTEX chemicals can dry out the rubber and cause it to become brittle and fail.
Click to expand...

Or SEA-FOAM for protection.
 
Just Wondering (As I Often Do) ...

Has anyone thought of what happens when an ELECTRIC ASSIST PS SYSTEM FAILS OR LOSES POWER?

I know on a FORD ELECT ASSIST RACK, when you have a service failure or lose power, there is no assist. It's AAA TIME.

And how much AMPERAGE does it take to operate a system properly? Think that 30A 6V GEN is going to do it?

At least with the BENDIX LINKAGE SYSTEM, you still have manual steering if there is a system failure.
 
And many of you here are also most likely wondering how I posted the above on the wrong thread.

It's commonly known/referred to as ADVANCED CRS with a strong complication of the head up the posterior.

I was once diagnosed with a short in my nervous system between my optic nerve and rectum. It seems I have a sh!tty outlook on life ... :(

Don't ask me why ...
 
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