Tapping sound when Clutch pedal engaged

G

GerryAllen

Senior Member
Folks, had noticed a rapid tapping noise when clutch engaged. I took the car out today and the sound is getting louder. Not major sound but started as a tap, tap, tap when clutch peddle fully to the floor, once peddle released no more tapping.
Any ideas as to what it might be.
Gerry Birch Bay, WA
 
Gerry, I have seen this on many cars recently. In these cases the ring gear has been pushed forward off the flywheel by the impact of the bendix engaging until it hits the bolt holding the starter motor that protrudes into the flywheel housing. If this is the cause it becomes louder when under braking or when braking whilst going downhill. Eventually it will occur even without pressing the clutch in, which forces the crankshaft and flywheel forwards.
Try loosening the inner bolt on the starter while pressing the clutch and see if the tapping disappears, and then the outer bottom bolt after re tightening the inner one.
SAJ in NZ
 
Gerry, the other cause can be clutch plate overthrow, in which case there is not enough free play in the pedal and the plate is being disengaged too far.
You only need sufficient throw to fully disengage the plates, and there can be lots of other reasons why too much disengagement occurs, as well as insufficient free play. Does the clutch fully disengage before the pedal throw reaches the condition of tapping?
SAJ in NZ
 
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Had the same issue on quick stops with clutch in. Drove me crazy. Hard to locate source, but eliminated it by shimming drives side float-a-motor quarter of a inch.
 
I have no one from my club to drop by and confirm your suspicions.
This might not apply, how ever would adjusting my clutch help? Just a wild suggestion. I am a relative newbie so please forgive my clutch adjustment question if not applicable.
Gerry Birch Bay, WA
 
GerryAllen said:
I have no one from my club to drop by and confirm your suspicions.
This might not apply, how ever would adjusting my clutch help? Just a wild suggestion. I am a relative newbie so please forgive my clutch adjustment question if not applicable.
Gerry Birch Bay, WA
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Gerry-
Using just your fingers (engine not running) press down gently on the clutch pedal and note ow far the pedal goes down before it is harder to push. This is the "free play" people are asking you about. It should be no less than 1 inch. It is OK for it to be a little more, if you want, but no less than 1 inch and no more than 2 inches.

Measure this first. Reply back with what you find.

I predict that it is your ring gear sliding forward off of your flywheel. Pretty easy to fix, once you remove the starter motor. Do not attempt this until you check back with someone.
 
Jim, as per your instructions have pushed the clutch peddle in.
free travel 3.5 - 4 inches about half the travel of full clutch movement.
Gerry
 
With that amount of freeplay, I think Clutch overthrow is not the problem. It is more likely shifted ring gear hitting the starter bolt. But TMARSH has a point too.
Carry out the simple diagnoses and you will soon know what it is by eliminating likely causes one by one. It sounds like you have eliminated the clutch adjustment but a loose spring or other component like a loose flywheel bolt could also be the cause. We took a diff out and removed a flywheel unnecessarily in a repair tent last year because no one thought to examine the starter bolts when an engine screamed and seized whilst being driven. It was the ring gear that shifted forward and jammed against the rear starter bolt under braking. A lesson in too many people offering advice and no one doing proper diagnosis including me!
The solution was easy and could have been done through the starter hole without half a days extra work taking the diff out.
SAJ in NZ
 
Guys as an FYI, I adjusted the clutch still the same noise. I ran the car and had my wife step on the clutch with me lying under the car. The sound seemed to be coming not from the starter but lower down where the clutch pedal goes into the transmission area.
I hope this makes sense.
 
Jerry, it’s easy to check if your ring gear is in its proper location. Disconnect the grd from the battery, and remove the starter and look. You may have to hold the starter stud underneath the large wire from the battery when you remove it the nut. Otherwise it can turn the whole stud, and cause problems.
By the way, I pulled your cars sister engine this winter and readjusted the bearings. 39,000 miles. One rod was a shim loose and starting to rattle. The other 3, I just sanded the cap clean and they were fine. the mains needed a shim removed on one side. Very little wear on the cylinders. I re ringed it because of a severe overheat last spring. Running good again!
 
Chuck, nice to hear from you. Glad to hear the engine is holding up, I am most pleased with my car. Engine seems strong, I only have put 12,000 since I bought the car, am most pleased.
I will check the ring gear, thanks for the heads up. One of the club members thought it sounded like my throw out bearing. Whats your thinking on that?
Gerry Birch Bay WA
 
GerryAllen said:
Folks, had noticed a rapid tapping noise when clutch engaged. I took the car out today and the sound is getting louder. Not major sound but started as a tap, tap, tap when clutch peddle fully to the floor, once peddle released no more tapping.
Any ideas as to what it might be.
Gerry Birch Bay, WA
Click to expand...


Gerry, I had a similar situation occur with my '32 Model B. When depressing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, it would "tap-tap" and go away when the clutch pedal was released about an inch from the floor.
It turned out to be the clutch plate springs were rubbing against the flywheel mounting bolts. I guess the thickness of the flywheel boltheads was a little greater than the originals or possibly washers were used where they shouldn't have been. Been too long ago to remember for certain. Finally went away when I replaced the clutch and installed a V8 flywheel.

Stay Safe,
Pat
 
GerryAllen said:
Chuck, nice to hear from you. Glad to hear the engine is holding up, I am most pleased with my car. Engine seems strong, I only have put 12,000 since I bought the car, am most pleased.
I will check the ring gear, thanks for the heads up. One of the club members thought it sounded like my throw out bearing. Whats your thinking on that?
Gerry Birch Bay WA
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It's all about probabilities. It is more likely that the rung gear is hitting one of the starter bolts and can be tapped back on through the starter motor mounting hole.

If you want, before taking everything apart, remove only the starter mounting bolt that is closest to the engine. That is the one that will be rubbed shiny on the end by the ring gear. When you confirm, disconnect the battery ground cable and remove the starter.

Remove spark plugs, leave transmission in neutral, and while your spouse (or other able bodied assistant) slowly turns the engine over with a hand crank, you tap the ring gear back on the flywheel with a hammer. You will notice a distinct change in the "ring" of the gear on the flywheel when hit with the hammer when the gear is seated snug again on the flywheel where it should be.

I hope you have a book to reference, like the Model A Mechanics Handbook, for this remove & replace. If not, you can get one from most Model A parts vendors or from here:
https://www.mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=166
 
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Guys, removing the starter in the next couple of days. I removed the two bolts to see if the back side of them were rubbing up against the fly wheel. They weren't so the starter comes off in the next day or so.
Will let you know what I observe. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE
Gerry Birch Bay WA
 
BIG THANK YOU, I was about to take the starter off. I noticed when I took the starter bolt next to the engine off that there was a shiny rub on the end of it. I re-reard the emails and one of you sharpies had suggested it might be the causing the noise. Put in a washer as a spacer so the bolt did not rub against what ever. Started the car and no more noise
BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL and Les Andrews for writing such a Great Book
 
GerryAllen said:
BIG THANK YOU, I was about to take the starter off. I noticed when I took the starter bolt next to the engine off that there was a shiny rub on the end of it. I re-reard the emails and one of you sharpies had suggested it might be the causing the noise. Put in a washer as a spacer so the bolt did not rub against what ever. Started the car and no more noise
BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL and Les Andrews for writing such a Great Book
Click to expand...

Gerry-
I'm the one that pointed you to this bolt, to look for rubbing. That's how I discovered the source of this noise on my car.

Putting a washer under the bolt head is not a fix, it's just a band-aid.

The problem is not that the bolt is too long!

The problem is that the ring gear has moved forward on the flywheel (after being hit by the starter bendix repeatedly when starting) and it is now rubbing against this bolt end.

Fix it right. Remove the starter and tap the ring gear back on to the flywheel where it belongs. See post #15 above for procedure.

While the starter is out, inspect the bendix. I found mine broken and replaced it before reinstalling the starter motor.

Feel free to contact me by email or Private Message if you want to discuss details.
 
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