t5 behind flathead

RF Man

Junior Member
I don't mean to re-hash old news, but man am I confused. I want to put a s10 t5 behind the flathead in my 52 Customline. I have read everything on here as well as every place else on the net. Am I understanding that no one is making an adapter to mount these two together. I see the adapters for the older split bells, but nothing for the late model (52-53) cast bells. These late bells have the ford toploader bolt pattern don't they. It seems to me that with a simple plate adapter this should be a go.
What am I missing here?

Help
MIke
 
I have this bellhousing that will bolt to your engine.You can then get an adapter from Speedway or? that adapts the T5 to this bellhousing.Figuring the clutch linkage would be the challenge.
 

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I see the adapters for the older split bells, but nothing for the late model (52-53) cast bells. It seems to me that with a simple plate adapter this should be a go. What am I missing here?
You're not missing anything, but our '52 and '53 cars don't seem to be popular enough for companies to tool up for.

As you can see, it's a simple flat plate. AND if you install a T5 with a Ford bolt pattern you can use:
* the stock pressure plate
* the stock throwout bearing
* the stock pilot bearing or bushing
* an $11 speedometer cable from AutoZone
* the stock rear mount, slightly modified

If you can find Astro Van cases, you'll have your shifter in the ideal position. Photos available.

I'm using Astro Van cases with a Camaro 2.95 gear set. With the 4.10 rear in my '53 Victoria, it's the perfect combination.
 

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This adapter will mate the Ford and late GM T-5 to all Ford cars and light trucks into the late 50's. Not sure when Ford Changed it's bolt pattern. GM went to the Ford pattern in 92 or 3, I think?? I made several of these and tried to get someone to CNC them, but setup cost were beyond my pocketbook. Vern Tardel Made them at one time.
 
Well after reading everything I could find on the web I'm shocked. I really don't want to move to a split bell---so thats out. I played that silly game before where you take 3 different T5 trannys and machine work to build a suitable 5 speed for adaptation----I'm not doing that again(rediculously expensive). I found 1 site on the Mustang forums where you can buy a mustang adapter and redrill your toploader bellhousing--this might be my only solution. It's hard enough to find s10 t5's around here let alone astro t5's----matter of fact I don't think I've ever seen an astro t5 in my life.
Again, I'm shocked. This seems like a simple no brainer. Another question---excuse my ignorance----but I thought all borg warner t5's had the t5 bolt pattern. What's the difference. When I canniblize the three t5's before, I used a trans from a mustang, a an s10. and a nissan truck. I watched some of the action as my trans guy was swappin parts all over the place. I didnt notice any bolt pattern difference. Again, I'm not a transmission expert. There are some suttle internal machining differences
that we had to deal with---which I would have never known.
Well, maybe it's time to take a different route. If anyone knows any other solutions, please post.

Thanks Mike
 
Flat-O-Products in Oregon.
Gene makes adaptors for C4 a/t, as well as T5 adaptors.
 
I really don't want to move to a split bell---so thats out.
Why not? What's "wrong" with a two-piece bellhousing? Ford used it themselves in several applications. It's your car and your prerogative, just curious.

I played that silly game before where you take 3 different T5 trannys and machine work to build a suitable 5 speed for adaptation----I'm not doing that again(rediculously expensive).
Well, until Tremec makes a T5 for flatheads, that's really your only choice for a T5 that exactly does what you need/want. Everything else is a (reasonable) compromise because you are ADAPTING something to a new use/purpose.

I found 1 site on the Mustang forums where you can buy a mustang adapter and redrill your toploader bellhousing--this might be my only solution.
To do what, exactly? You mentioned S10 T5, this approach works best on Mustang T5. And your 49-53 transmission bolt pattern is NOT the same as the T&C Toploader found in early Mustangs and other muscle cars. It was used from '49-64. Most of the early T&C Toploaders DO have both bolt patterns, but not even all of them do. And most adapters fabricated for the early Mustang crowd will be set up for the 'later' 65-up T&C Toploader pattern because their bellhousings only have the later '65-up bolt pattern.

Be careful mixing and matching adapters, transmissions, and bellhousings - there is a dizzying array of variations out there...be sure you are on the same page as whomever you are dealing with. You've blurred several varieties in your post alone...

Again, I'm shocked. This seems like a simple no brainer.
It is, use a two-piece bellhousing and any one of several adapters. OR, you can modify a steel 49-53 bellhousing to take a Ford T5 (including Astro and late S10) and move your shifter by swapping the tailhousing/top cover.

Another question---excuse my ignorance----but I thought all borg warner t5's had the t5 bolt pattern. What's the difference. When I canniblize the three t5's before, I used a trans from a mustang, a an s10. and a nissan truck. I watched some of the action as my trans guy was swappin parts all over the place. I didnt notice any bolt pattern difference. Again, I'm not a transmission expert. There are some suttle internal machining differences that we had to deal with---which I would have never known.

When we talk about T5 bolt patterns, there are two main ones that I'm aware of - the GM pattern and the Ford pattern. This refers to the bolt pattern that mates the transmission to the bellhousing. The GM pattern is found on the S10 prior to '93 (although '93 was a transition year and some were GM pattern depending on application) and from '93 and up, GM used the Ford pattern. And the Ford pattern is found on most of the rest of them. I have been told there is another pattern, but never seen it, but considering the T5 was used in everything from Nissans to TVRs (which used Ford for sure), and Agricultural Sprayers, there's no telling for sure. Nothing surprises me anymore when dealing with T5s.

The overwhelming majority of the adapters out there are specifically for the GM pattern and were meant to put a GM Muncie or Saginaw 4-speed behind a flathead. The GM transmission pattern is nearly universal at GM, but the S10 does have a slightly longer input shaft than every other GM transmission - this poses it's own problems depending on the adapter and clutch plate used.

The Ford pattern, while pretty standardized, is plagued by a variety of input shaft lengths, diameters, and spline counts (GM has only two - regular & S10). The majority of Ford T5 are V8 Mustang, and this is the T5 most refer to when they speak about adapting a Ford T5 - bear this in mind when T5 hunting. If you get a Mustang T5 out of an SVO, you'll have a longer, thinner input shaft. If you get a Ford T5 out of a '94-95 Mustang, you'll have a longer input shaft. When looking for a Ford T5, you want an '83-93 V8/302/5.0 T5 - the later/newer the better. This is what all Ford adapters I'm aware of are made for.

Truly the best way is to do it like Richard did - build exactly what you need/want. That is more expensive and most can find a very agreeable compromise by adapting one of the stock ones, or at worst, swapping the tailhousing and top cover to move their shifter. However, if you consider that most of these T5s we're scrounging are over 20-30 years old, many will require a rebuild anyway, so there's a lot of sense in putting something together fresh exactly how you want it.
 
I recently adapted a Toyota W55/6 to a flathead steel bell housing. No adapter needed. Now thin trans is a floor shift and the lever comes out of the floor almost in the original 38 PU location. I know nothing about this transmission except it is heavyer than a T-5 by a large margin. Has nice ratios as well
 
I recently adapted a Toyota W55/6 to a flathead steel bell housing. No adapter needed. Now thin trans is a floor shift and the lever comes out of the floor almost in the original 38 PU location. I know nothing about this transmission except it is heavyer than a T-5 by a large margin. Has nice ratios as well

Had to look those up. Here's a decent page:

http://www.retrotech.co.nz/Tech/Toyota-boxes.php

Looks like most of the shifters would be much further back, but maybe you can swap those offset shifter boxes around front-to-back?

What sort of adapter did you use? I believe macspeed out of New Zealand used to (and may still) offer one...
 
THE 3 on tree with o/d and 3.78s works well . I used to go 6 speed just cause I could. ernie. It was a buis coupe 255 ci 6 cyl. torque monster
 
was mistaken when I said the shifter came out near the stock location, sorry about that. I;ll look into that.
I didn't make an adapter I just cut the top of the steel Ford bell housing up and wekded in a plate, re drilled the bottom holes and left one out. The Toyota trans is hel on with 6 bolts, I used only 5. will dig up some pics.
 
I'm just trying to put something together in this car with what I've got laying around. The car's going to 12 volts, so the over drive stuff won't work---also, after I got the car running to see how bad everthing was, the od transmission won't shift right--it's grinding like crazy in all the gears. I have a couple of s10 t5's, and and old 303 toploader that happens to be double drilled, so it will mount to the 52 FLATTY cast bell.
The split bell solution does result in some clutch linkage issues which I'd rather not deal with----although this seems to be the way the t5 adapter manufacturers would have you go. I figured that I'd just use one on my s10 t5's if I could find a simple adapter and have finally found a company on the net that says they have the right adapter($350---too much for my tight azz). So, for now it looks like the old 52 will be getting the toploader.
See, I also have a fresh 302 set up for t5 laying there and with a $200 adapter kit, it could be in the car. I'm really trying to keep the flatty in the car and make it drive on the cheap---it's just not cooperating.
THX for all the help Mike
 
I'm just trying to put something together in this car with what I've got laying around. The car's going to 12 volts, so the over drive stuff won't work---also, after I got the car running to see how bad everthing was, the od transmission won't shift right--it's grinding like crazy in all the gears. I have a couple of s10 t5's, and and old 303 toploader that happens to be double drilled, so it will mount to the 52 FLATTY cast bell.
The split bell solution does result in some clutch linkage issues which I'd rather not deal with----although this seems to be the way the t5 adapter manufacturers would have you go. I figured that I'd just use one on my s10 t5's if I could find a simple adapter and have finally found a company on the net that says they have the right adapter($350---too much for my tight azz). So, for now it looks like the old 52 will be getting the toploader.
See, I also have a fresh 302 set up for t5 laying there and with a $200 adapter kit, it could be in the car. I'm really trying to keep the flatty in the car and make it drive on the cheap---it's just not cooperating.
THX for all the help Mike

Well futzing around with old flatheads aint cheap....
 
up and wekded in a plate, re drilled the bottom holes and left one out. The Toyota trans is hel on with 6 bolts, I used only 5. will dig up some pics.
They're a popular swap down under and seem to be catching on in the UK a bit...supposedly a very good transmission. The 5-spd used in the Rovers in the UK looks very, very similar and I thought it would make a good ******, but the funky way it bolted to the bellhousing kept me from being able to do much more than day dream...

The car's going to 12 volts, so the over drive stuff won't work---
They work fine on 12V. You can run a dropping resistor to the solenoid or find a 12V solenoid. Many people actually run the 6V solenoid on 12V and report no problems, although there is a risk of burning it up (it will get hot).

also, after I got the car running to see how bad everthing was, the od transmission won't shift right--it's grinding like crazy in all the gears.
I will assume the oil level was at the correct level and of the correct type...Putting synchros into an early 3-spd is pretty simple and straight forward and requires no special tools.

I have a couple of s10 t5's, and and old 303 toploader that happens to be double drilled, so it will mount to the 52 FLATTY cast bell.
With the 303, you'll get an all-synchro trans, but still be 1:1 in 3rd gear. And unless you modify it to take a Jeep shift tower, you could find the shifter location to be too far aft (depending on the original application of your 303). You'll also likely have to alter your driveshaft yoke and/or length. A lot of effort to end up with a 3spd & no OD.

The split bell solution does result in some clutch linkage issues which I'd rather not deal with----although this seems to be the way the t5 adapter manufacturers would have you go. I figured that I'd just use one on my s10 t5's if I could find a simple adapter and have finally found a company on the net that says they have the right adapter($350---too much for my tight azz). So, for now it looks like the old 52 will be getting the toploader.
The split bell shouldn't give you much problem with the clutch linkage, but if you choose the wrong adapter it might. There are two T5 adapters, one for early-style clutch linkage (pivot shaft through orginal trans, now through adapter) and one for later clutch linkage that accepts the clutch fork just like the '49-53/4 vehicles. I'm not sure Offy makes the later style anymore or not, but they show up used or on eBay from time to time. You may look into this a bit more before you dismiss it. I'm not guaranteeing it will work without adaptation, but fabricating a basic clutch linkage is reasonably straight forward - in all likelihood, you're probably looking at altering nothing more than the rod between the pedal linkage and the throwout arm. I also just looked and Offy do make a specific adapter for putting a GM trans to any '49-65 pattern:

http://www.offyparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/77/products_id/217

See, I also have a fresh 302 set up for t5 laying there and with a $200 adapter kit, it could be in the car. I'm really trying to keep the flatty in the car and make it drive on the cheap---it's just not cooperating.
THX for all the help Mike

drop in a 283, that will bolt up to a T 5 :rolleyes:
The 302 would be quicker and easier... ;)
 
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