Substitute ****** fluid
- Thread starter mtnmice
- Start date
Keith True
Well-known member
Another thing a lot of people don't realize,is that the 600W spec is NOT a weight spec.It is not 600 weight.It could just as well been 600Z.It was just a letter designation for the oil.The Shell rep told me that spec is somewhere around 200 weight,but he also told me that no one really knows.He said the tech guys will never commit to a number,as some of the old specs seem kind of murky.The tallow was different in different parts of the country,and was different depending on the kind of animals it was rendered from.
Jim/GA
Well-known member
Your Shell rep may not know what the specs of 600W are, but Mobil Oil seems to know (since they are the originators of it):
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_Cylinder_Oils.aspx
Mac's Antique Auto Parts has told the Model T club guys that they sell the Mobil Super Cylinder oil as their 600W oil:
http://www.modelt.org/index.php?vie...s-the-right-one&option=com_quickfaq&Itemid=34
This chart
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
can help you figure out the overlap between 600W oil (ISO 460, a narrow viscosity band) and SAE 140W gear oil (a much broader viscosity band).
Remember the discussion about engine oil viscosities a few weeks ago? SAE viscosity numbers represent a band, not a fixed point, as the chart shows.
Paul from Maine
Senior Member
Okay, now I'll make a few people cringe! My worn out ****** leaked oil faster than I could pour it in so I removed the shift tower and filled it with wheel bearing grease and STP. Shifts like a dream now, no need to double clutch and no dripping or leaks. Quiet, too! Motor was rebuilt 5,000 miles ago and ****** is working fine. When it fails, I'll have that rebuilt too or I'll buy a Mitchell! Till then, wheel bearing gease and STP suits me fine!
700rpm
Well-known member
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
the ford specs are 80 yrs old, any gear old now is 500% better than any oil back then, ever ask why ford used 600w? the answer is because thats all he had, he also used non detergent oil, and look how that worked out, just because ford specs from 80 years ago say use some thing doesnt mean they are the best, just what was best then, think about it-----You're a man of great common sense, some still use Vaseline on dist. cam lobes 'cause Henry said so! PSHAW! It rubs right off. Use good Delco dist. cam lube, it stays put & also lubes speedo cables well. If Henry were here & restored an "A" I'm sure he would use modern lubricants, oils, a thermostat, an alternator, leakless waterpump, & with my recommendation, probably those "DREADED FAM's"
Usually when I blow off like this, some respond as if I offended GOD!Point being, in the "old days" they recommended the best that they had at that time. Shucks, if Henry lived next door, we could be friends, I'd even pass him my hose, so he could wash his "A" off of MY water meter
& he'd probably spray my driveway joints with HIS Roundup!
spdway1
Well-known member
Terry NJ
Well-known member
I don't like anythuing I have to order and wait for days anticipating it's arrival. So, when I was "Refreshing" my 30 coupe, I used "of the shelf" stuff. Just prior we were have this "Discussion" about Trans oils. "What? Another discussion about Trans oil? It must be Thursday!" Anyway, the star of that show was "Lucas Hub Oil" that's used in the wheel hubs of very large trucks. Someone had what he considered great luck with Lucas Hub oil and was sharing the news and he listed all of it's positive qualities. The reaction can be divided in three ways; Those who hunger for new products and liked it or some other products, These who hated it and stuck with the stuff Henry called for, Those who were on the fence. I tried to find Lucas Hub Oil and couldn't locate and so I tried Lucas Oil Stabilizer and STP and it seems to work fine.
Terry
Terry
Chris in WNC
Well-known member
if STP is not a lubricant, it can certainly pass for one around here.
I've run it in transmission, differential and steering box ever since reading Roger Kauffman's recommendation- tens of thousands of miles over the years.
transmissions shift just fine and unlike Purdy I have no trouble draining it out. seems to thin out in use and drains right out like any other gear oil......
I've run it in transmission, differential and steering box ever since reading Roger Kauffman's recommendation- tens of thousands of miles over the years.
transmissions shift just fine and unlike Purdy I have no trouble draining it out. seems to thin out in use and drains right out like any other gear oil......
Last edited:
BarracudaBoy
BANNED
Joe K
Well-known member
Like the real 600W, it helps if the transmission has been used recently and is still warm.
I can't say I've ever changed it though. It works! No longer amber but a nice dull yellow/blue on the finger.
Gosh dern it. I just unhinged part of the argument FOR. If you want to and enjoy changing the transmission oil use the traditional 600W.
Joe K
Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
Hey Joe, the only time that I have ever changed gear oil in anything was the time that I tried to get the STP out of my 31 sedan. Oh yeah, I like your new avatar, cool!!
Purdy
Purdy
MikeK
Well-known member
I always get a big laugh when I hear "STP is not a lubricant". If you look at the MSDS you will see it is mostly OIL with a small percentage of additives. MSDS LINK The "not a lubricant' statement is an old Andy Granatelli advertising claim to make you think you were buying a bottle full of additives. In fact you got mostly thick oil with a tiny % of additives.
My really old glass tube and steel ball viscosity rig has shown STP Hi-Mileage formulation to be about 4,700 SUS @ 100F. That's roughly iso 680 or thicker.
The STP Hi-Mileage stuff contains mostly iso 680 or greater OIL with a small % of zinc compounds (ZDDP) and a tackifier. I've run it straight in my 40B ****** for years.
My really old glass tube and steel ball viscosity rig has shown STP Hi-Mileage formulation to be about 4,700 SUS @ 100F. That's roughly iso 680 or thicker.
The STP Hi-Mileage stuff contains mostly iso 680 or greater OIL with a small % of zinc compounds (ZDDP) and a tackifier. I've run it straight in my 40B ****** for years.
I did the same thing to my steering gear box over 5 years ago, steers fine and no leaks, nothing wrong with wheel bearing grease and STP.
Joe K
Well-known member
I think we hear a whole bunch of different opinions regarding WHAT WORKS FOR ME. With the emphasis on ME.
However, each ME has a slightly different bore and stroke - not literally but figuratively.
Funny, over at Harry's Old Engine Board where I am on occasion a contributor, I opined on using STP as a substitute for 600W steam oil (this the same stuff as the Model A stuff - back then.)
Gosh you could have heard the old geezers clearing their throats all the way over the Internet.
"NO steam engineer worth his salt would EVER use STP in a displacement lubricator."
Funny, I have been able to make a respectable living doing EXACTLY that for nearly the last 40 years. (so phooey on dems guys and I still occasionally spread the heathen gospel over at Harry's board.)
I do think any opinion one has to take with a grain of salt. Including one's own. Each of us have our own conceptions and MISconceptions about what either STP or 600W oil is. Or what it does. Or how long it lasts. Or how easily it is changed.
I have heard and I think I agree that 600W even in the day came in MANY formulations and degrees of viscosity depending on the steam engine it was to be used on. I think it was Steam Engine Principle and Practices by Croft which outlines at least six different manufacturers and for each at least a couple of different applications/grades, and maybe more. Now today, we have a lot less choices - and I imagine the manufacturers are likely to have modified their lubricants to better serve today's market. So while the oils are likely better, they ain't even what they were then.
So not to give offense but send everyone away with a smile - if it works for you - THEN BY ALL MEANS USE IT.
Just don't put a handful of sawdust into the transmission like I found my pickup had when I first opened it. It ran and shifted REAL smooth - but there was this constant background odor of a cedar planing mill in the cab. And shortly afterwards the noise of the same planing mill from the transmission.
Joe K
Edit: and yes the Avatar is the Gordon Smith Compressor as it is found today. Still a project in waiting. In some ways I wish I still had the original 1930 cowl, wheels, compressor tank of the original setup - but alas these got traded off to someone doing a 1930 roadster - and another doing up a Gordon Smith factory setup.
But this stationary unit will serve. I plan to set it up remote from the garage in a large doghouse and run it only when I sandblast.
Yes, in many ways more interesting...
Lowell Fast
Member
http://www.agrisupply.com/tractor-fluid-equipment/p/72451/
How about the use of "tractor fluids" as above. (made for older tractors)? May not have all the sulfur that attacks old brasses.
How about the use of "tractor fluids" as above. (made for older tractors)? May not have all the sulfur that attacks old brasses.
