stud removal
- Thread starter kurt v
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Charlie Stephens
Well-known member
Call local machine shops and ask if they know a company that specializes in stud removal. I live in Southern California and with all of the expensive aerospace manufacturing, companies specialize in that problem. The company I use in Southern California is https://brokentap.com, you might look at their web site for an explanation of what they are doing.
Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens
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I've used the torch method and I'm going to try a magnetic induction tool like Bolt Buster next go around.
Heat is really the trick to getting them to release. Prior to, hit the studs with penetrating oil. I've use melted bees wax on the deck after heating them up too. Can't say for sure if it worked since the stud threads always came out dry.
Heat is really the trick to getting them to release. Prior to, hit the studs with penetrating oil. I've use melted bees wax on the deck after heating them up too. Can't say for sure if it worked since the stud threads always came out dry.
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pistonbroke
Well-known member
Hi Kurt, I've been down this road too many times with Cadillac flatheads. They used smaller head bolts then Ford so they break often. What always seems to work is getting the bolt or stud red hot then letting it cool completely. While it's hot you might tap it with a hammer. After it's cooled I wire feed a nut to it let it cool again and it comes out. This has worked so many times for me it's just routine now.
Interesting. I've often had to heat some studs twice. Never thought to weld nuts to the tops so you can wrench them off.
I do like grabbing them at the surface of the deck to limit the amount of twist being applied so they don't snap.
I have used the welded nut trick if they break off at the deck surface.
I like to use a 1/2" breaker bar with a stud removal tool. Using a long breaker, you can get a feel as to when they are going to come out and when they are going to break.
If machine shop had difficulty they be stuck and they didn’t want to take chance of breaking them off. The above ideas are all good and if you’re not concerned about saving them cut them off about 3/4” above the deck and then weld nuts to them. The heat from welding will really help just let them cool first.
KiWinUS
Well-known member
Mart
Well-known member
I use a tool that has a knurled cam that locks into the stud. I bought one of those chuck types but I don't like it. You can't tell if you are still tightening the chuck or twisting the stud.
I prefer the knurled cam tool and normally try a tightening action first.
I also use heat sometimes.
I also tap on the stud sometimes. Sometimes while applying the loosening torque.
I have shown stud removal and broken stud removal in a few videos.
I still don't know the perfect method that would suit all engines. Finding the right technique for a particular motor is the trick.
I should say, though, sometimes they all come out with a minimum of effort! It can happen!
Mart.
I prefer the knurled cam tool and normally try a tightening action first.
I also use heat sometimes.
I also tap on the stud sometimes. Sometimes while applying the loosening torque.
I have shown stud removal and broken stud removal in a few videos.
I still don't know the perfect method that would suit all engines. Finding the right technique for a particular motor is the trick.
I should say, though, sometimes they all come out with a minimum of effort! It can happen!
Mart.
This has been discussed a million times with all kinds of suggestions, ideas etc. 1) heat is your friend here, a LOT of it. 2) You do not want to break off the stud trying to get it out as this makes the process a little trickier. 3) stud pullers , breaker bars , penetrating oil, double nutting, etc MAY get some of the studs out depending on your luck. However you WILL break some with this method and you will spend a lot of time fussing with it. We are talking hours and frustration levels you have not seen. 4) Understand that when Ford studs do break off, it is from a bending force, not a torsional rotation stress. 5) For the quickest ( a couple of hours) and only 100% method for removing studs without causing collateral damage read item 6 below
Item 6:
using an acetylene torch, heat up the studs and let them cool completely. Using the nuts you removed, double nut the stud and use your impact wrench with a deep well socket as this does not induce the fatal bending forces. This will get the easy ones out.
Now for the hard ones , get a bunch of cheap hardware store 1/2" course thread nuts even though you know the studs are 7/16". Now take your angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut the offending studs so they are about 3/4 to 1 " long. Now you take the 1/2" nuts and they will slip over the studs and and make sure they are all the way down and in contact with the block. Depending on how cheap the nuts are you may have to take a file to the ID to get them to fit. Get your welder fired up (electric is best for this) and weld the nut to the stud. Really weld it, weld the sh**t out of it because this is the source of heat into the stud to break the bond betwen the stud and the block. go around and weld all of nuts to the studs. Let all of this cool off and for the fun part, get your impact wrench with a 6 point socket and sit on the welded nut under full air pressure and wait for something to happen. Either the stud comes out or the weld breaks. If the weld between the stud and nut breaks, reweld it and give it another go. The stud will come out given enough time and air pressure. This works 100 % of the time and I have never broken a stud off, but I have always gotten every stud out even though it may take a bit of time for the impact gun does its job. If for some reason you have a stud broken off at the deck level, position one of the 1/2" nuts over the broken stud and weld down inside the nut to attach it to the end of the broken stud. Again, weld the sh***t out of it so the stud gets red hot to break the bond. It will come out.
This method works every time. Start with this method and don't waste your time.
The key tools that makes this work are the impact gun and the welder. Without them you are going to have a long and tough time.
With them, you will be done in a couple of hours, not including the trip to the hardware store for the cheap (buy 'em by the pound) 1/2 " nuts.
Good luck, report back
Item 6:
using an acetylene torch, heat up the studs and let them cool completely. Using the nuts you removed, double nut the stud and use your impact wrench with a deep well socket as this does not induce the fatal bending forces. This will get the easy ones out.
Now for the hard ones , get a bunch of cheap hardware store 1/2" course thread nuts even though you know the studs are 7/16". Now take your angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut the offending studs so they are about 3/4 to 1 " long. Now you take the 1/2" nuts and they will slip over the studs and and make sure they are all the way down and in contact with the block. Depending on how cheap the nuts are you may have to take a file to the ID to get them to fit. Get your welder fired up (electric is best for this) and weld the nut to the stud. Really weld it, weld the sh**t out of it because this is the source of heat into the stud to break the bond betwen the stud and the block. go around and weld all of nuts to the studs. Let all of this cool off and for the fun part, get your impact wrench with a 6 point socket and sit on the welded nut under full air pressure and wait for something to happen. Either the stud comes out or the weld breaks. If the weld between the stud and nut breaks, reweld it and give it another go. The stud will come out given enough time and air pressure. This works 100 % of the time and I have never broken a stud off, but I have always gotten every stud out even though it may take a bit of time for the impact gun does its job. If for some reason you have a stud broken off at the deck level, position one of the 1/2" nuts over the broken stud and weld down inside the nut to attach it to the end of the broken stud. Again, weld the sh***t out of it so the stud gets red hot to break the bond. It will come out.
This method works every time. Start with this method and don't waste your time.
The key tools that makes this work are the impact gun and the welder. Without them you are going to have a long and tough time.
With them, you will be done in a couple of hours, not including the trip to the hardware store for the cheap (buy 'em by the pound) 1/2 " nuts.
Good luck, report back
Interesting about drilling out the center. I did not have good luck with the one I have, but willing to try it again after modifying it.
Lawson Cox
Well-known member
A friend of mine removed a stubborn stud with a 12 gauge. A little bloody but it worked.
ford38v8
Well-known member
richard crow
Well-known member
weld the nut to the stud. now take an inpack gun set at a low setting. not enought to brake the stud. work foward an back. the vibration works wounders. if that dont work go to heating . the thick is to go slow there a ***** to get out
Flathead Fever
Well-known member
I’m by no means a flathead expert but I have removed studs from about a dozen flatheads, it’s an exercise in patience compared to other engines you might have worked on. Early on a builder of land speed record holding flatheads suggested I use this Snap-On stud remover. He said, the first-time he did a flathead he broke 46 out of the 48 studs and with this tool he usually only breaks a couple studs. The two that probably did not break were the only two that did not go into water jackets.
I went out and bought one. It works well. no other stud remover tool, and I have several, grab onto the stud without slipping as well as the Snap-On collet setup does. I have removed all the studs on blocks just using this tool and on others I have had to heat the studs and then use the tool. You tighten it up as tight as you can on the stud and then use a 1/2" impact, set on a low setting and let it gently hammer away on the studs until they break loose. You get a feel for if the stud is starting to loosen or if it feels like it is starting to twist. It will come out hard all the way because of the thread’s interference fit. The split second you it’s twisting you better immediately stop and switch to plan B. A lot of times they will come right out with Snap-On tool. It depends on the block and how much corrosion has happened within the threads. If they don't come loose with the stud remover, then I heat the studs red hot and let them naturally cool. It helps to take some wax while the stud is red hot, and let the was wick down into the threads, it lubricates the threads. I’ve heated studs without the wax, and they would not move. I’ve heated them again using the wax and they slowly came out. When they break then I weld a not to them. That also helps put heat down into the threads to help break them loose. The MIG welder will not stick to the cas tiron only the stud. This is how we took out broken exhaust manifold bolts at work, where there was no room to get a drill in there. It usually takes a couple of tries; the nuts will break off but eventually they come out with a stud welded to them. Use non-plated nuts so the plating does not contaminate your weld. I'll run them through the bead blaster to remove the plating. The inductance heating sounds like the hot setup, that way you’re only heating the stud. It takes most of us decades to acquire all these tools. For the guy just starting out working on this stuff they are at a great disadvantage. You barely have the money to build an engine and then people are telling you need go out and buy all these expensive tools. If you think you will continue to build cars, then you buy the tools as you need them and eventually as you use them over and over, they will pay for themselves.
Here is an engine 59A engine I started on for a ’34 pickup. I try to do as much as I can myself. I can prep the block, remove the studs, cam bearings, drill the holes for the adjustable lifters, pressure test it, clean the rust out of the water jackets, grind off all the sharp edges and grind the ports to match the gaskets... It saves me money at the engine builder. This is all stuff you can do at home, but it requires a lot of patience. Before you go through all that block prep you need make sure the block is usable. That happened to a friend of mine. He spent a week getting the studs out of a block and then found an obvious freeze crack above the pan rail that he should have seen.
I took photos of my latest engine project as I was removing the studs. I broke two of them, and I was trying as carefully as I could not to. The ones I broke I had made repeated attempts heating them red hot and using the stud puller. Broke them and tried welding nuts to them.
I finally had to drill them out. I have this great set of Blue Point broken bolt extractors that has drill guides for drilling the correct size hole and perfectly centering it in the broken stud. I stick the head back on the block and drop a drill guide into the stud hole and it perfectly centers the drill bit. All of this took several evenings to get them out. If they break off with some stud sticking above the block, I weld the nut to the stud. If they breakoff below the block I weld a thick washer to the stud and then weld the nut to the washer. If I ever do this again, if I have a stubborn stud, before it breaks, I'm going to cut it off a 1/2" above the block and weld a nut to it. It's that long stud twisting that prevents you from breaking the stud loose. If you have ever used a long extension on impact and you couldn't break a bolt loose and then switched to a shorter extension and the bolt came right out it's the same concept. If I cut it off above the block, weld a nut (like others have said) it will turn into a short bolt and an impact set on low should take it right out. So first I'd try the Snap-On tool and before it breaks the stud I cut it off and weld a nut to it.
When the factory installed the studs there was no sealer on them. They were an interferences thread. The block threads are slightly different than the studs. The interference fit is what prevents them from leaking. You’ll read where you should run a tap through every bolt hole in the block. If you do that on the head studs your liable to end up with a lot of seeping studs. I know so many people that have ended up with leaking studs after running taps down the stud holes, that changed the thread pitch. Even after using sealants on the studs, they still leaked. After learning this lesson, the hard way, I will not run a tap down the stud holes. I just use a good original stud and run in it there to clean out the rust and then spray the hole clean with brake clean.
I went out and bought one. It works well. no other stud remover tool, and I have several, grab onto the stud without slipping as well as the Snap-On collet setup does. I have removed all the studs on blocks just using this tool and on others I have had to heat the studs and then use the tool. You tighten it up as tight as you can on the stud and then use a 1/2" impact, set on a low setting and let it gently hammer away on the studs until they break loose. You get a feel for if the stud is starting to loosen or if it feels like it is starting to twist. It will come out hard all the way because of the thread’s interference fit. The split second you it’s twisting you better immediately stop and switch to plan B. A lot of times they will come right out with Snap-On tool. It depends on the block and how much corrosion has happened within the threads. If they don't come loose with the stud remover, then I heat the studs red hot and let them naturally cool. It helps to take some wax while the stud is red hot, and let the was wick down into the threads, it lubricates the threads. I’ve heated studs without the wax, and they would not move. I’ve heated them again using the wax and they slowly came out. When they break then I weld a not to them. That also helps put heat down into the threads to help break them loose. The MIG welder will not stick to the cas tiron only the stud. This is how we took out broken exhaust manifold bolts at work, where there was no room to get a drill in there. It usually takes a couple of tries; the nuts will break off but eventually they come out with a stud welded to them. Use non-plated nuts so the plating does not contaminate your weld. I'll run them through the bead blaster to remove the plating. The inductance heating sounds like the hot setup, that way you’re only heating the stud. It takes most of us decades to acquire all these tools. For the guy just starting out working on this stuff they are at a great disadvantage. You barely have the money to build an engine and then people are telling you need go out and buy all these expensive tools. If you think you will continue to build cars, then you buy the tools as you need them and eventually as you use them over and over, they will pay for themselves.
Here is an engine 59A engine I started on for a ’34 pickup. I try to do as much as I can myself. I can prep the block, remove the studs, cam bearings, drill the holes for the adjustable lifters, pressure test it, clean the rust out of the water jackets, grind off all the sharp edges and grind the ports to match the gaskets... It saves me money at the engine builder. This is all stuff you can do at home, but it requires a lot of patience. Before you go through all that block prep you need make sure the block is usable. That happened to a friend of mine. He spent a week getting the studs out of a block and then found an obvious freeze crack above the pan rail that he should have seen.
I took photos of my latest engine project as I was removing the studs. I broke two of them, and I was trying as carefully as I could not to. The ones I broke I had made repeated attempts heating them red hot and using the stud puller. Broke them and tried welding nuts to them.
I finally had to drill them out. I have this great set of Blue Point broken bolt extractors that has drill guides for drilling the correct size hole and perfectly centering it in the broken stud. I stick the head back on the block and drop a drill guide into the stud hole and it perfectly centers the drill bit. All of this took several evenings to get them out. If they break off with some stud sticking above the block, I weld the nut to the stud. If they breakoff below the block I weld a thick washer to the stud and then weld the nut to the washer. If I ever do this again, if I have a stubborn stud, before it breaks, I'm going to cut it off a 1/2" above the block and weld a nut to it. It's that long stud twisting that prevents you from breaking the stud loose. If you have ever used a long extension on impact and you couldn't break a bolt loose and then switched to a shorter extension and the bolt came right out it's the same concept. If I cut it off above the block, weld a nut (like others have said) it will turn into a short bolt and an impact set on low should take it right out. So first I'd try the Snap-On tool and before it breaks the stud I cut it off and weld a nut to it.
When the factory installed the studs there was no sealer on them. They were an interferences thread. The block threads are slightly different than the studs. The interference fit is what prevents them from leaking. You’ll read where you should run a tap through every bolt hole in the block. If you do that on the head studs your liable to end up with a lot of seeping studs. I know so many people that have ended up with leaking studs after running taps down the stud holes, that changed the thread pitch. Even after using sealants on the studs, they still leaked. After learning this lesson, the hard way, I will not run a tap down the stud holes. I just use a good original stud and run in it there to clean out the rust and then spray the hole clean with brake clean.
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